Greyscale tint on Relative vs Perceptuell

[Erland]

Good day!

When I printed 2 black and white images yesterday, using a custom ICC,  one on relative and one on Perceptual, the tint in the image is different when comparing the two. The Perceptual is more neutral, less greenish tint, and when I compare the two intents in an ICC viewer the neutral axle stays more into the middle if you understand me.

I've attached a screenshot so you can see. The green is Perceptual, the red is relative.
Why is this? It is from i1Profiler, neutralize att 100, but still, using 0 neutralize it is the same outcome.
I thought both neutrals should match?

[digitaldog]

Neutralize is to ‘adjust’ for paper color (think newspaper).

[Erland]

I understand the function of the neutralize. I just wanted to clarify that it doesn't improve at either 100 or 0 regarding  that Perceptual and Relative don't give the same result on the color cast on my Black and white prints.
I get that the tonality might change between the two, but shouldn't they create the same colors (or the lack of) on the paper?

[digitaldog]

I get that the tonality might change between the two, but shouldn't they create the same colors (or the lack of) on the paper?

There are so many settings in i1P that do next to nothing that I ponder what the engineers were thinking half the time. Take smoothness with it’s scale of 0-100. I’ve seen cases where there’s zero difference between a setting of 1 and 25. So why do we have 100 levels of granularly? This is but one such slider. There are other settings that will only affect the Perceptual table which is fine if you know when the setting will do something visible. So depending on your settings and the alignment of the stars, it’s perfectly natural to see one  RI do something and not the other. This is the case with Neutralize, at least in Profile Settings area, there are three sliders which are labeled Perceptual because they do nothing with anything but the Perceptual RI. So don’t expect any setting in that area to have any affect on the Colorimetric table.

IMHO, IF you have a slider that has settings from zero to 100, there should be a difference between 1 and 2. Otherwise, make the slider have a setting of zero to 10. X-rite doesn’t agree. So IMHO the sliders are kind of useless in terms of the numbers.

[Erland]

I agree fully on x-rites undocumented and also pretty unsupported sliders in i1P. I have read several different explanations on what a slider should do (not always what it actually do).
And I do understand why some of them make changes in the Perceptual RI and not in the Relative. But Shouldn't the greyscale remain the same between them when thinking about tint/cast and neutrality? A black and white image should print as neutral, and remove any colorcast as much as possible using either of those RI, right? 

[digitaldog]

But Shouldn't the greyscale remain the same between them when thinking about tint/cast and neutrality?

All things being equal, yes. But Neutralize isn’t intended for anything but Perpetual so IF you’re modifying it, I’d expect to see differences in the two RI’s.