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Author Topic: Standardizing Print Sizes for odd size images  (Read 1174 times)

pudlofink

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Standardizing Print Sizes for odd size images
« on: April 13, 2015, 05:52:40 am »

In looking to pin down the sizes for my fine art prints, I was considering A5, A4, A3, A2, 24", 44".
Paper will be Museo Portfolio Rag 300gsm in sheets to use with an Epson 3880 A2 printer. Sizes 24" and 44" I would outsource to a printer.

I'm thinking if this is a sound approach: The images I've worked on are odd sizes so if I resize the short side of (each of my) images equal to the short side of the sizes above, ie 210mm for A4, then the long side of the image would then travel along the long side of the paper. I would have each size print to offer. Then of course trim the extra paper off the length.

I have a few image that are pano so for these I would not be able to use the sheets in ISO paper sizes but I would buy a A2 roll and cut it long enough and (after flattening a few days) feed it in manually into the 3880..

I've read that after coming off the printer you have to trim the print a bit because it's not always perfect in alignment and there could be some marks. With this in mind should I list my print sizes on the website as a bit smaller, ie
Normal A4 - 210 x length of print in mm
Print size stated - 200 x length of print in mm

is this enough trim allowance?
If the stated print size is not perfectly what I end up with for my customer is this ok?

I can't do standard sizes because of the way I work, I'm an illustrator/artist. I tend to organically produce my work from the middle out and what I end up with is what I end up with (so the resulting size is any aspect ratio).

Originally I thought going down to A5 might be too petite, are these worth the effort?
For the bigger sizes 24 - 44", does the paper hold up ie can it be handled without buckling or damage. Do people buy paper prints this big? I know that framing would be expensive, but many things expensive are still purchased by people, even if only ocassionally. I would love to see a print that huge of something I've worked on.

I'd also have the obligatory 1" border all around the image. Seems to be the way to go. As the 3880 does borderless I'd let people choose that option if they wanted, but make the border the standard setup.

thanks!
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PeterAit

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Re: Standardizing Print Sizes for odd size images
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2015, 07:40:22 am »

Your approach sounds good - and I applaud you for respecting the "odd" sizes of your images. I think that cropping is extremely important for presenting an image at its best, and forcing your crops into the standard aspect ratios just to fit the paper is never a good idea, IMO.

As for paper not being in perfect alignment and/or marked, I have never experienced that with my 7900. When feeding sheets I am always very fussy about aligning them.

As for panos, you might want to consider printing them as triptychs or other multi-part formats. Easier to print, mount, frame, and hang with a just as impressive visual effect.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Standardizing Print Sizes for odd size images
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2015, 07:49:27 am »

As I have been on that path too, it is always fun to see people compute economically / aesthetically pleasing print formats that should correlate with printer widths, frame aspect ratios, camera sensor aspect ratios, standard graphic paper sizes, standard photo paper sizes, odd sizes. All and/or of course. Golden ratio can be added too.

In practice the largest size roll a printer can handle + one or two roll sizes below that is the most flexible choice on all aspects. On my 44"printer I use both 44"and 36"
and for specific jobs 24" if the roll is used for 90% on that job.

For your 3880 a 17" roll + possibly a 13"roll. Cutting up 36" rolls perpendicular at 17" intervals comes to mind too. You could decurl the roll and store maximum sheet lengths the 3880 can handle which is close to 36". Or decurl (reverse rolled) a night in advance of the printjob, cut to sheet(s) before the job starts. Nest images on a long sheet with for example Qimage Ultimate so the trailing edge print margins are reduced.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

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pudlofink

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Re: Standardizing Print Sizes for odd size images
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2015, 11:29:06 am »

Quote from: PeterAit
Your approach sounds good - and I applaud you for respecting the "odd" sizes of your images. I think that cropping is extremely important for presenting an image at its best, and forcing your crops into the standard aspect ratios just to fit the paper is never a good idea, IMO.


I find the sizing of the artboard plays a big part in the dramatic effect of any individual image. It changes the focus and emphasis of the elements of the composition and can regenerate an illustration that wasn't working. In a drastic bid to bring an image around I would crop it severely on one side reducing the artboard and push the subject matter around in a different layout to match the new space and (if I'm lucky) all of a sudden the elements I was playing with start to fit together. Too much space or too little (depending) can be the undoing of a composition. It's fair to say after this slog the last thing I care for is that a client can't get their image put into a standard frame lol. If I designed artwork from the start to fit in a standard paper size it wouldn't be the vision that I want it to be.

Quote from: PeterAit
As for paper not being in perfect alignment and/or marked, I have never experienced that with my 7900. When feeding sheets I am always very fussy about aligning them.

So you rarely have to trim your prints after running them out Peter? They're good to go? except for trimming the end off the roll or whatever?

Quote from: PeterAit
As for panos, you might want to consider printing them as triptychs or other multi-part formats. Easier to print, mount, frame, and hang with a just as impressive visual effect.

Have to see how I go because they are not really panos as such, maybe I used the wrong term. I looked up Panos on the web and it seemed to suggest there is no strictly defined aspect ratio to be called a pano. So I adopted it for anything longer than a normal page size. For example from memory a few of my pieces are 180 or 190mm x 297mm so noticeably more elongated than a standard ISO page size in proportions, but I would imagine a good stretch short of a true pano definition as defined by many a photographer. Given they're a bit on the short side then, probably not enough for splitting up into multiple areas. I'll keep it in mind though for a future work, it's a nice idea.

Quote from: Ernst Dinkla
As I have been on that path too, it is always fun to see people compute economically / aesthetically pleasing print formats that should correlate with printer widths, frame aspect ratios, camera sensor aspect ratios, standard graphic paper sizes, standard photo paper sizes, odd sizes. All and/or of course. Golden ratio can be added too.

Yes indeed, some information is hard to find online so I end up scratching my head and formulating my own way of sizing things up and trying to have it make sense. That there are different measurements for standard sizes (paper, frames etc) depending on country means that it becomes a bit hard and somewhat irrelevant to try to make my images a certain one size fits all for framing, esp as you know they are odd sizes to begin with. I end up trying to go back to a simple setup, like, how difficult or important can it be, just pick a size and print the darn thing out and let the customer get it framed. By the way what's a 'Golden ratio'?

Quote from: Ernst Dinkla
In practice the largest size roll a printer can handle + one or two roll sizes below that is the most flexible choice on all aspects. On my 44"printer I use both 44"and 36"
and for specific jobs 24" if the roll is used for 90% on that job. For your 3880 a 17" roll + possibly a 13"roll. Cutting up 36" rolls perpendicular at 17" intervals comes to mind too. You could decurl the roll and store maximum sheet lengths the 3880 can handle which is close to 36". Or decurl (reverse rolled) a night in advance of the printjob, cut to sheet(s) before the job starts.

I've had a look at a few suppliers online and the only roll sizes for the paper I'm using are 17", 24" and 44" by 15m roll. I was thinking I could figure out the sizes of each of the images that are panos and a cut the particular length off the roll I need for each image. If I cut the maximum 36" length I might end up with a bit more waste than I needed?

How is de-curl done? Do I cut a length off the roll and place it on a big table with the curl facing upwards and then chuck a bunch of heavy books on it? I heard it needs 2-3 days to flatten.

Quote from: Ernst Dinkla
Nest images on a long sheet with for example Qimage Ultimate so the trailing edge print margins are reduced.

When I am set up I'll test out my printing because Adobe Illustrator has a built-in RIP so I might give it a shot printing straight from Illustrator to the printer first. I'm guessing this would only allow one print at a time though, so might look into Qimage if I get busy and am printing multiples to save paper?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2015, 11:32:22 am by pudlofink »
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Standardizing Print Sizes for odd size images
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2015, 05:06:08 pm »


If I cut the maximum 36" length I might end up with a bit more waste than I needed?

How is de-curl done?

When I am set up I'll test out my printing because Adobe Illustrator has a built-in RIP so I might give it a shot printing straight from Illustrator to the printer first. I'm guessing this would only allow one print at a time though, so might look into Qimage if I get busy and am printing multiples to save paper?


A 36" length becomes waste when the last piece left of it can no longer be loaded on the 3880, <127 mm as I understand it. That asks for sensible use of the leftover lengths in the box. Not that difficult.

By getting a 3" inch core, add a tail of paper so you get a Q___   Slip the start of the paper roll in between tail and core. Roll the paper reversed from its original core to the new core, as much as you need. And let it stay so for a night.

I would never print from Illustrator to an RGB profiled printer for color management reasons. I would not do it for resampling reasons too.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots







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pudlofink

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Re: Standardizing Print Sizes for odd size images
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2015, 10:57:47 pm »

Quote from: Ernst Dinkla
By getting a 3" inch core, add a tail of paper so you get a Q___   Slip the start of the paper roll in between tail and core. Roll the paper reversed from its original core to the new core, as much as you need. And let it stay so for a night.

So this way uses a spare empty core which I use to roll around paper off another roll. nice! it's probably faster to re-curl than flattening I'd imagine.
So do I need to add a small separate tail of paper onto this spare core before I add the start of the paper roll I want to decurl? Why is this? Does it hold the paper I'm wanting to de-curl tighter in a groove or something?

Quote from: Ernst Dinkla
I would never print from Illustrator to an RGB profiled printer for color management reasons. I would not do it for resampling reasons too.
This is bearing in mind my files are native Illustrator vector files, that are already RGB in color mode?
What does RGB profiled printer mean? Is this what all inkjet printers are naturally, ie, they use RGB data so you send them an RGB file. OIr does it relate to some profiling I'll be performing on the printer to configure it.
About as much as I know about color management is I need to use ICC profiles for the paper I'll be using. I know there's more to it than that, profiling the monitor etc, but haven't learned that yet.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Standardizing Print Sizes for odd size images
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2015, 06:21:17 am »

Why is this?

This is bearing in mind my files are native Illustrator vector files, that are already RGB in color mode?


Try to do it without the paper tail is the only answer I can give.

Alright, I expected you wanted to nest photos of different sizes on an Illustrator page. This is different. RGB described vectors, font colors + whatever is a good start. Make sure the page + elements get an RGB space assigned when it goes en route to the printer, preferably AdobeRGB. I still would prefer a final color check in Photoshop with a calibrated monitor and print from there. Rasterise the Illustrator exported PDF in Photoshop at 360 PPI or preferably 720 PPI, 16 bit when gradations are used, adding a low amount Gaussian blur as well for that in PS, soft proof and then print from Photoshop.

I can not give a course on color management in this thread, there are nice threads on that subject and good links in them to more of that on the web. Andrew Rodney / Digitaldog is a keyword you could use.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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pudlofink

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Re: Standardizing Print Sizes for odd size images
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2015, 11:31:29 pm »

Thanks Ernst! great info

when i get the printer I'll try that method vs printing straight from Illustrator. Might have problem with gradients in Illustrator, and 3880 might have issues printing from Ills, so Photoshops a good fallback.

Since my largest print size is A2 does it make economic sense to buy only A2 paper and trim the A3, A4's off that? or just buy the smaller sheet sizes
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