Deutsche Börse Prize 2015 nominees announced

[Diego Pigozzo]

Both are fair points, Diego.
If I was from a poor area of Africa I may have looked at Migrant Mother and thought 'she's rich she can afford clothes'. But the photo was intended for an audience from her own society and the photographer to my mind did what she had to do to getù the message across to the intended audience.

That's exactly what I meant when I wrote about the "cultural background" of the viewer.

And that for me is where the DB photos fail to engage me. There is no indication in the photos themselves of who the person is or their backgrounds for a narrative to start. Even knowing they are discriminated people there is no narrative in the photo of what that persecution means to them and no point of empathy. I need to force one on what is a series of good quality portraits.

I see what you mean.
But try to imagine for a moment to be a gay who underwent his fair amount of discrimination.
Do you think it's possible that those photos will engage you?
Maybe, if being discriminated was part of your cultural background, you would see some subtle hints in the photos you're now missing
(I'm not saying this in the "you should shut up since you're not being discriminated" sense).

But (and this has just struck me) maybe the power of those particular photos is in the context of a book of 365 photos and abstracting them as 7 shots is doing them an injustice and the book has more context.

May be very true.

Thankfully the arts are capable of influencing political thinking.

Regardless of whether someone likes it or not.

[Isaac]

But try to imagine for a moment…

I am reminded of --

Nevertheless it is a story that IF YOU WISH and IF YOU CAN SEE THE STORY you can universalize and then offer to people as a mirror of themselves. Your photographs are still mirrors of yourself. … They are "expressive" meaning a direct mirror of yourself rather than "creative" meaning so converted as to affect others as mirrors of themselves.

[NancyP]

I suppose that the award could be given to a photographer's large project, and one really would need to view the entire book of photos and text to evaluate this sort of project. The typical set of editorial photos is two to a dozen or so, not ~350.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, John Roberts:

“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”

In other words, if you want to stop discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, then stop discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation, i.e., stop doing what the two juries did.

[Isaac]

Slobodan, you seem to be hijacking the discussion to re-open the locked Religious Freedom Act dispute.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Slobodan, you seem to be hijacking the discussion to re-open the locked Religious Freedom Act dispute.

Hmmm... this is a tricky one. No, I do not want to reopen it. Nor anything I said so far had anything to do with Indiana or religious freedom. However, the issues in this thread are intertwined with the broader issue of discrimination, if for no other reason, than for the opening sentence in the OP:

...considering recent US legislation in favour of discrimination

Then, later posts in this thread are inevitably touching upon sexual orientation issues. And lastly, I stated how my quote above is linked to the thread: two juries selected winners not on the merits of their photography, but by discriminating based on sexual orientation.

[elliot_n]

To clarify re. the Deutsche Börse Prize. The winner not been announced yet. Zanele Muholi is one of four nominees.

http://thephotographersgallery.org.uk/deutsche-b-rse-prize-2015

(What is this other photo prize you are talking about?)

[NancyP]

Well, I am lobbying for a discussion about the merits of a short photo series versus a comprehensive set versus a single image, and about the valuation of journalistic content versus formal esthetic content.

Sometimes there is a bit of "thumb your nose at the Americans" in European culture. That's fine. There's probably a certain amount of "how many photos of the American West do we need" as well as a bit of ridicule for to-them-odd parts of our American social habits. After all, we can look at some of their works and think "meh".

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... (What is this other photo prize you are talking about?)

World Press Photo Contest

[Isaac]

…two juries selected winners…

Oh, that kind of jury. Mea culpa.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...Sometimes there is a bit of "thumb your nose at the Americans" in European culture...

In the case of the World Press Photo Contest, they decided to stick it to Russia, for a change

[elliot_n]

World Press Photo Contest

Ok. I see. Two photographers whose work highlights homophobia (in South Africa and in Russia) have recently received gongs in international photo competitions. So what? What's the problem? Both seem to be working in the spirit of Eugene Smith.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... So what? What's the problem? Both seem to be working in the spirit of Eugene Smith.

Well, I stated what I see is the problem in the beginning of the thread. No point in going in circles.

[elliot_n]

Well, I stated what I see is the problem in the beginning of the thread. No point in going in circles.

Right, you said 'I hate when political agendas get involved in arts'.

But then you championed Eugene Smith, which is obviously contradictory.

So it comes across that you have a problem with this particular political agenda (the campaign against homophobia).

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...But then you championed Eugene Smith, which is obviously contradictory...

Not at all. I didn't "champion" Eugene Smith for his political views or how his photographs were used. I said his photographs had photographic merits that survived their initial political slant, if there was any.

The confusion probably comes from you and Keith Laban talking about politics and arts in general (with which I might actually agree), while I was talking in a much more narrow context: blatantly (mis)using jurying process to push a particular political agenda.

If you do not see a problem with that, then you would't see a problem in Soviet arts where artistic directions were coming from the central committee, not artists.

[Diego Pigozzo]

The end point is that while some photos stand just for their "aestetical qualities", others stand for their "photographic qualities" that very often include the viewer's cultural background, the historical context and the political statement behind the photo.

Capa's D-DAY photos get their "photographic qualities" mainly by the context.
The same is true for HCB's slap photo loses most of its power if devoid of the context.

For the political statement, suffice to look at René Burri's Che Guevara portrait: aestetically just a nice portrait, an amazing photo from a photographic point of view if the historical context and political statement is taken in consideration.

[NancyP]

The interest in these contests for me is to look at the work of the finalists, not just the winner. I highlighted a landscape (large project) winner of WPPO 2015, Kacper Kowalski, in the Coffee Corner a while back. I didn't mention some of the other projects, series, or single photos that intrigued me. Because I am a biology geek, I found "Mindsuckers" Anand Varma, and "Vegetables with an Attitude" Christian Ziegler, to be excellent illustrations of their stories.

[jjj]

Let's see what's been going on in the world that is apparently less important:

- carnage of children and civilians in the Middle East
- unspeakable, barbaric, medieval atrocities in the Middle East, Asia and Africa
- school girls kidnapped en masse and turned into soldier brides
- children turned into soldiers
- students executed en masse for their religion
- believers attacked in their churches
- terrorist attack in the heart of the civilized world
- the cradle of civilization on its knees, denied a bailout by the recipient of the largest bailout in history, which once occupied it and looted it
- 85 richest people in the world have more wealth than the 50% of the world

That the non-argument people use when they actually have no argument. Choosing these or any other photos does not mean that other stories or photos are being ignored or diminished as a result.
Plus what makes your remark particularly asinine is that this award is for 'contemporary photography', not 'photojournalism'. Not that you are bothered by facts....

However, we are not talking about newsworthy or not (it is), we are not talking about the Pulitzer Prize (for journalism writing), we are talking about "the most significant contribution ... to the medium of photography."

And here you are lying by omission. The full sentence which has a very different meaning to your misquote....
"The Deutsche Börse Photography Prize aims to reward a contemporary photographer of any nationality, who has made the most significant contribution (exhibition or publication) to the medium of photography in Europe in the previous year."

But hey, what's all that compared to:

- a little trouble in the "backdoor paradise"

Is that meant to some sort of snide gay slur, as recent posts tend of yours seem to indicate you are a homophobe?
You seem to be particularly objecting to/sneering DB shortlist as well as at the choice of the World Press Photo 'Contemporary Issues' winner for showing aspects of gay life in Russia where the government are pursuing an anti-gay agenda, simply because they are stories about gay people. This Russian attitude is also sadly reminiscent of 1930s Germany marginalisation of various peoples deemed unacceptable and your posts makes me wonder if you agree with the anti-gay sentiment currently being promoted by various governments.

[jjj]

The end point is that while some photos stand just for their "aestetical qualities", others stand for their "photographic qualities" that very often include the viewer's cultural background, the historical context and the political statement behind the photo.

Capa's D-DAY photos get their "photographic qualities" mainly by the context.
The same is true for HCB's slap photo loses most of its power if devoid of the context.

For the political statement, suffice to look at René Burri's Che Guevara portrait: aestetically just a nice portrait, an amazing photo from a photographic point of view if the historical context and political statement is taken in consideration.

People seem to be missing your point that a photo's value/importance etc is due to a combination of context as well as photographic content. Migrant mother or the Che image without the back story, like many iconic images would be far less if at all revered without the back story. Context made them iconic, not the content.
Many photos of famous people would barely merit a second glance without the patina of fame the subject has.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Migrant mother or the Che image without the back story, like many iconic images would be far less if at all revered without the back story. Context made them iconic, not the content...

Says you and diegopig. Art history begs to differ.

Will see how "iconic" those passport photos will become.