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Author Topic: Religious Freedom Act  (Read 76524 times)

Diego Pigozzo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2015, 09:09:44 AM »

Instead of whining about how bad and bigot is this law, why don't make bigotry a disease that's lethal by starvation?
In the internet era how difficult is setting up a site (maybe www.starvethebigots.net?) that lists of the business run by bigots who refused to serve gay/atheists/jews/black an so on?
How difficult is writing a mobile application that let someone knows if the store he's entering is run by a bigot so that you can choose not to buy stuff from him?



PS: I can't wait the day some christian will refuse to serve a jew because "jews killed jesus".
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2015, 09:15:22 AM »

BH Photo in New York City is owned and run by orthodox Jews whose religion does not allow them to eat pork, shrimp, etc. Would it be OK for them to turn away any customer who does?...

But it does allow them to turn away any customer on days their religion tells them not to work, even when their customers do.

Diego Pigozzo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2015, 09:16:38 AM »

Luminous Landscape has always been about photography, not politics.  Even the rants.
This rantatorial has no place here.

Photography is about how you see the world and the people around you, how you fit in it, how you feel about it.
Take all this out of photography and you will end up with traffic's camera shots.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2015, 09:31:24 AM »

If there are still those interested in a level-heased analysis of those laws (i.e., not just Indiana's), free from the usual knee-jerk reaction and hysterics of the professional armchair outragers, there is an article in the Washington Times here.

Diego Pigozzo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2015, 09:34:27 AM »

If there are still those interested in a level-heased analysis of those laws (i.e., not just Indiana's), free from the usual knee-jerk reaction and hysterics of the professional armchair outragers, there is an article in the Washington Times here.

Any law that allows discrimination of any kind is unworthy of a civilized nation.
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AlterEgo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2015, 09:39:47 AM »

remember when America was the champion of all forms of freedom, and enshrined them in its constitution?
you mean when founding fathers did not consider females and negroes as human beings ?
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AlterEgo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2015, 09:41:24 AM »

Here in the UK, it's illegal in most instances
so what are the instances when we can be a little pregnant ?
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2015, 09:42:38 AM »

Any law that allows discrimination of any kind is unworthy of a civilized nation.

That is what the debate is about: is it a discrimination. But apparently for some people there is no need for a debate, even if they didn't read the law or the 20 years of its implementation and judicial practice, as they already "know."

Deardorff

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2015, 09:48:37 AM »

Utah has one of these drawn up and pushed by top leadership in the Mormon Church. Discrimination based on religion is still discrimination based on hate no matter how they try to explain it away or justify it.
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Diego Pigozzo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2015, 09:49:58 AM »

That is what the debate is about: is it a discrimination. But apparently for some people there is no need for a debate, even if they didn't read the law or the 20 years of its implementation and judicial practice, as they already "know."

Yes, it is discrimination, plain and simple.
Just change "gay" with "jews" or "black people" and it will be quite obvious.
But, for some reason, "gay" needs debate but "jews" no.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2015, 09:58:47 AM »

Yes, it is discrimination, plain and simple...

That is what I am talking about. People who have no clue whatsoever what they are talking about are jumping into the fray based on their preconceived notions. There are very, very few things in life and especially law that are "plain and simple."

Phinius

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2015, 10:00:09 AM »

First, the slander: "Here we go again, religion, the word that has caused more wars and conflicts than anything else and we just allowed it to be the grounds for a way to say no to people." Do the names Hitler, Stalin and Mao come to mind as deeply religious people? Not unless they are all members of the church of the left.

Second, the law does not "allow" business people to refuse to serve gays; it allows a business person to use her faith as a defense in a lawsuit against her.

Third, in states with similar laws the businesses rarely if ever win because it is very hard to argue effectively that because one thinks sodomy immoral, the can't take a picture of otherwise normal people doing normal things.

Fourth, the real problem is that Indiana has no statutory protection for gays as a protected class.
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jfirneno

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2015, 10:01:48 AM »

Any law that allows discrimination of any kind is unworthy of a civilized nation.


Obviously you would like to discriminate against anyone whose religious beliefs do not line up with yours.  Interesting.
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Diego Pigozzo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2015, 10:02:16 AM »

That is what I am talking about. People who have no clue whatsoever what they are talking about are jumping into the fray based on their preconceived notions. There are very, very few things in life and especially law that are "plain and simple."

One of this "plain and simple" thing is that this is discrimination.
You can hide behind all the rationale you want: that doesn't change the fact that this is discrimination.
And, again, it's quite obvious if you change "gay" with "jews".

But you know what? I'd like you to try to convince someone that a store with a "we don't serve jews" on its front door is not engaging in discrimination.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 10:03:56 AM by Diego Pigozzo »
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Diego Pigozzo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2015, 10:03:37 AM »

Obviously you would like to discriminate against anyone whose religious beliefs do not line up with yours.  Interesting.
I know that's interesting.
But I'm not a government, so what I think it's not a law all the citizen are subjected to.

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PeterAit

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2015, 10:05:26 AM »

But it does allow them to turn away any customer on days their religion tells them not to work, even when their customers do.

I don't think that being closed is the same as "turning away any customer" - do you? I can't imagine anyone objecting to a Christian baker or florist being closed on Sunday.
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NancyP

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2015, 10:15:33 AM »

The Indiana law is an embarrassment. I am a lifelong Midwesterner - grew up in Cincinnati OH, lived in St. Louis MO for past 30 years. If anyone thinks, well, this just affects gays, butch-ish women (think preppie), and nebbishy guys not wearing camo, think again. The most obvious targets are going to be 1. the OTHER favorite punching bags, brown skinned people with foreign names, Jews, blacks 2. straight women (in employment matters). What this law says is that discrimination is legal if done for "sincere" religious reasons, and that ALL for-profit businesses can claim religious convictions.

 Do you honestly think that there aren't any Indiana (Arkansas, Missouri) businesses that wouldn't hire or serve blacks because the owner "sincerely" believes that race mixing is agin' his religion? We have several explicit White Supremacy churches in Missouri, in the small towns.

The amount of hysteria shown by suburban and exurban/rural white people over the Ferguson MO affair was ridiculous - suburban housewives were taking gun lessons and buying guns before the verdict came out. I think that the Meetup outdoors club people I go hiking with (different people each time) are generally ordinary nice-enough (overwhelmingly white) people, but I was hearing all sorts of paranoia, and people thought I was crazy for not being very concerned for my safety and telling them that if they didn't drive straight through Ferguson, they would be just fine. I live 5 miles from Ferguson, 2 miles from another hot-spot, work at an inner city hospital with scads of black co-workers whose main concerns were for their commuting route and possibly their own safety if they lived in or within a mile of Ferguson.

 My cynical thought this past year has been - St Louis hasn't changed in 30 years concerning race. I want to shout, Grow Up Already.

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2015, 10:15:57 AM »


...I'd like you to try to convince someone that a store with a "we don't serve jews" on its front door is not engaging in discrimination.

And in the 20 years of the existence of those laws, federal and states, where are those or similar signs?

Diego Pigozzo

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2015, 10:18:06 AM »

And in the 20 years of the existence of those laws, federal and states, where are those or similar signs?

Nice try, but that doesn't do the trick.
Again: can you show anyone that a store with a "we don't serve jews" on its front door is not engaging in discrimination?



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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Religious Freedom Act
« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2015, 10:20:17 AM »

Nice try, but that doesn't do the trick.
Again: can you show anyone that a store with a "we don't serve jews" on its front door is not engaging in discrimination?

I admit my defeat...it is hard to argue with your imagination.
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