Canson Platine

[petercorb]

I seem to be plagued with paper issues recently, however.

I got hold of some rolls of Canson Platine Fibre Rag here in South Africa - there is no distributer here but someone had it sent from Germany by mistake and sold it off.

I love the media, especially for B&W, however I have an issue with compression marks on the surface, obviously due to the feed rollers on my 9900.

I have tried many settings but it still persists, in fact it makes no difference  what platen or paper settings I make it is still obvious.

Is this something inherent in the media?

Peter

[Geraldo Garcia]

Unfortunately it is usual.

On my prints I can only see the marks when the light hits the paper on a specific angle and the marks usually disappear after a few days.

[petercorb]

In my case, unfortunately they persist.

The effect may lessen once behind glass, I will see soon.

Does anyone else have the same issues?

[JRSmit]

Perhaps the vacuum was set too high for the paper?

[petercorb]

I cant understand how too high vac would cause this issue ?

These are clearly pressure marks where he media has been compressed by the feed rolls

Indeed it is a very soft paper compared to, say epson exhibition or hahnemuhle but I cant imagine it is normal !

[hugowolf]

I cant understand how too high vac would cause this issue ?

These are clearly pressure marks where he media has been compressed by the feed rolls

Indeed it is a very soft paper compared to, say epson exhibition or hahnemuhle but I cant imagine it is normal !

The platen gap setting adjusts the distance of the print head to the platen (back of the paper), it is the paper thickness setting the adjusts feed rollers. Have you tried to set the thickness to something ridiculously large, like 0.7 or 0.8 mm?

Another thought would be humidity, the Platine surface gets pretty soft in highly humid conditions.

Brian A

[petercorb]

Have you tried to set the thickness to something ridiculously large, like 0.7 or 0.8 mm?

As I mentioned in my opening post:

I have tried many settings but it still persists, in fact it makes no difference  what platen or paper settings I make it is still obvious.

I was hoping to get information from the forum i.e. has anyone else had the same issue?

[JRSmit]

Vacuum can be such that it deforms the paper a long the suction Chanel on the platen.  This can gives an appearance on the print side like roller pressure

[petercorb]

Thank you for your response, however is your comment an informed reply- i.e have you experienced the same problem with the same printer and media?

if so please elaborate with specific examples and settings thereof.

Peter

[ssgphoto]

Yes, I have had the same exact problem with my 11880. It is very subtle rippling parallel to the length go the paper. Yes, perhaps it might come out if you mount the prints, but in my opinion its not good enough to give client's prints on this stock when others can be 100% smooth. Its a shame because its a really beautiful surface. I tried to solve this with the support of my Canson rep, several different rolls, 2 different printers, several settings for width and media type including turning off the vacuum, but I was unable to eliminate the ripples.

I imagine we are having this problem because Platine is a rag paper which might be softer or more compressible than alpha cellulose fiber papers. I had the similar problem with the Hahnemuhle Baryta Rag as well. However, I am able to get better results with the Innova warm cotton gloss. The heavier stock seems to be the difference. I have heard of better results from Canon with the different feed mechanism but I haven't tested or seen it yet. I'd be curious to hear about any Canon users results.

[Paul2660]

What I believe you are seeing is the imprint from the ridges in the platen.  All all Epson's you can look at the face of the platen and see a long row of raised bars, about 3/4" apart.  The imprinting comes from the paper moving over those ridges, most times you can measure the gap between the marks on the paper and see it's the same.

I have not had this problem with Platine on my 9900, however I am still using Platine that is over 1 year old and I had heard from others it's been reformulated and thus not quite as thick.  I can't address that as i have not purchased any in a while due to my current supply. 

Every Epson I have owned does this to some degree, my 9880's being the worst, as they would leave the imprint in canvas and sometimes enough that it did not come out later during stretching.  You can almost always see some of this on a glossy 250 weight, especially Epson's PPGP 250W, which has always surprised me.  You can also sometimes see faint scratches on the back of the paper also left by these same ridges.  I get the scratches on all paper's RC or Rag with my 9900. 

The 9900 I have seems OK on my Platine, and Baryta 310 W.  I know that Canon has reformatted Baryta as I have older versions that have a lot more glossy look to the paper where as their newer version is much more satin. 

The vacuum, is basically suction. you can't turn it off on the 9900 or 9880, not sure on the 11880, but without any vacuum, you won't advance the paper.  You have the option to reduce the suction when you load the paper, but as soon as you start the print, the suction comes back to the normal amount so, the decreased amount does not work while the print is running.  When the print starts, you can hear the 9900 ramp the suction back to normal.  If there is a way to keep it lower all the time I would love to know, i.e. a setting in service mode.  There is nothing in the owners manual.

i went through several 9880's with Epson due to this issue, and finally worked out a deal to have to take my last 9880 back and let me pay for an upgrade to the 9900.  I even had the repair tech on the phone with Epson to attempt to change the actual fans rams in my 9880's but it still left the marks. 

I use Platine a lot and just ordered 4 rolls, and will test them on my 9900 to see if the newer versions of the paper leave the imprints like you are getting.  The only way I know to totally remove these is in a dry mount process. 

Paul

[pcgpcg]

...I'd be curious to hear about any Canon users results.

I use 24" roll Canson Infinity Fibre Rag in my Canon 6400 with no issues at all. I installed the associated .am1 media information file from the website and used it to set up the printer settings.

[jferrari]

Peter, I wonder if it's not a matter of wet sponge, dry sponge. It's humid where you are right now and the paper is expanded due to acclimating with the local relative humidity. If you have the ability to oven-dry a test sample, try that.     - Jim

[petercorb]

Thanks for the input everyone it seems this media reacts differently with different conditions and different printers. I must say I agree with you Jim, I do live right by the sea and the humidity could well be a significant factor.

However in the meantime I sent a query to Canson and within a couple of days got this reply, which I think sums-up everything that was discussed in this post:

Dear Sir,
This is unfortunate to hear that you have got some troubles using our Platine Canson Infinity paper

And we are very sorry for that.

We cannot say that this is the first time that these troubles occur, but one thing for sure is that Platine is one of our best selling paper.

This does not mean that it fits all kind of printers. As you may feel, when taking the sheet in hand, this is a soft paper, compare to our Baryta or our Rag Photographic.

To offer the largest number of sensations and renders, we took several option in the formulation of our paper bases, which as said above may not fit all printers.

Our technical service proposes you to adjust your printer feeder with a higher value for the thickness of the paper. You probably ( myself I am not a printer specialist, and I translate the report from our technician..) have to modify this value in the pilot of your printer. Can you do that?

Of course this is not an ideal situation for you, but we believe that can help.

We will question our R&D department to check if it is possible to give more rigidity  and flex (or spring) to Platine paper base, without changing the render of surface. If we are able to modify and improve the paper, we will contact you again to provide you some samples to test.

If you still have problem with Platine paper, after adjusting the width value on your printer, myself as a commercial gesture, I will be happy to offer you a box of any other papers you would like to try from our range. To receive it, please send your choice to Maryse Dauphin, and precise to her your physical postal address and cell phone, so that we can send it by courier.

Once again, we apologize for the inconvenience you got with PLatine, we hope that the “solution” of adjustion will solve the problem, and above all, we are thanking you to support our products and hope you will continue.

Best regards

Also I framed my first image (1.2m print) and now its behind glass, as I suspected, I cannot see the marks - shows how much glass takes away from an image!

 

[datro]

The vacuum, is basically suction. you can't turn it off on the 9900 or 9880, not sure on the 11880, but without any vacuum, you won't advance the paper.  You have the option to reduce the suction when you load the paper, but as soon as you start the print, the suction comes back to the normal amount so, the decreased amount does not work while the print is running.  When the print starts, you can hear the 9900 ramp the suction back to normal.  If there is a way to keep it lower all the time I would love to know, i.e. a setting in service mode.  There is nothing in the owners manual.

Amount of suction during printing is a function which is associated with the Media Type.  The reason you are hearing the printer go back to "normal" suction is because when you start a print the suction setting (along with other paper handling characteristics like Color Density and Drying Time) is being set in the printer by the Media Type you are using for that print.  In the "Paper Config..." settings for the Media Type you can adjust the suction to a range of [Standard, -1, -2, -3, -4].

Dave

[petercorb]

As I said, thanks for the input, however the last post is off topic.

If you read my posts... i am completely ok with the printer settings of my Epson 9900.

The question was (is) the inherent properties of Canson Platine and how it behaves physically with the latter printer.

As I said the reply from Canson, and the numerous replies I have had really does sum it up for me.

Interesting; I tried cutting sheet from the rolls and printing with my 3800, there is no tracks, marks, or compression at all.

Again; once behind glass its impossible to detect - love the paper and once profiled (with an image that can do it justice) it reveals astounding results.

However please read the reply from Canson, it may influence your decision vis a vis your printer and Canson Platine!
 

[Paul2660]

Amount of suction during printing is a function which is associated with the Media Type.  The reason you are hearing the printer go back to "normal" suction is because when you start a print the suction setting (along with other paper handling characteristics like Color Density and Drying Time) is being set in the printer by the Media Type you are using for that print.  In the "Paper Config..." settings for the Media Type you can adjust the suction to a range of [Standard, -1, -2, -3, -4].

Dave

Dave, 

Thanks, I missed this point and I appreciate the info. 

Paul