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Author Topic: 645Z a good long term investment?  (Read 4461 times)

Clafleur

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645Z a good long term investment?
« on: March 27, 2015, 09:34:19 pm »

Some months back, both Michael and Nick Devlin wrote very positive reviews for the Pentax 645Z and I understood both bought into the system for their personal use.  If I recall correctly, in his review, Michael wrote that he was hoping this would be a good investment for his landscape shooting.  Michael/Nick, would either or both of you be ready to offer a preliminary assessment?  Thanks, Chris
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michael

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Re: 645Z a good long term investment?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2015, 10:27:26 pm »

I stand by my review.

But I'd be cautious about the work "investment". Just so you understand that buying a digital camera is not that.

But is it a good use of funds for someone looking for best value in a medium format digital system? I would answer that it definatey is.

Michael
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Clafleur

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Re: 645Z a good long term investment?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2015, 11:00:44 pm »

Michael,

Thank you for the quick reply.  I referred to 'good investment' but I looking back I see that what you actually said in your review was 'good buying decision'.  I was wondering whether you found you were getting enough use out of the 645Z when you have (as I gather you still do) the option of taking out to a landscape location the more convenient -- and in many ways not much less capable -- Sony a7r, especially now that there are so many great lenses available (including in other mounts with adapters).  I gather you do, and that is very helpful as I a contemplate a similar decision.

Thanks again,

Chris
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michael

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Re: 645Z a good long term investment?
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2015, 06:11:26 am »

It would be useful to make a check list of your needs and compare them to the features and capabilities of the equipment you're considering.

For example, if you're going to be working hand held a lot, the A7r would be a superior choice.

These are the things that should drive your decision.

As for me, or Kevin, or others who write about this gear, there's no point in comparing what we have a do with your own situation, because we do this for a living. Gear comes and goes as we do long terms testing. Also, we shoot everything from documentary street work to animals on safari. Most people pursue just one or two types of shooting.

Michael
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Scotty-S

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Re: 645Z a good long term investment?
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2015, 07:35:31 am »

I think it is well worth the "investment" personally.

I only shoot for stress relief and personal pleasure and have never in 10 years used a camera that makes me smile as much as the Z does, same goes for my old 645D.  Just a pleasure to use.

Live view was a critical addition for me so the Z is great.  All it really needs in the next model or even a firmware update is an electronic first curtain shutter.

I also use a Sony Nex6 and A7ii for handheld travel and on-site shooting of documentation for my business and they are great, but the Z system is more rewarding in my view.

I would work out what you need lens wise and start there, if you want light I would suggest an A or FA35mm and FA120mm, add the 645z and you are good to go.  You will have 28mm and 90mm eq. and that's all you need to get started.
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Gel

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Re: 645Z a good long term investment?
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2015, 08:45:20 am »

I use mine all the time (Weddings, Portraits and Landscapes).

It's certainly a much better investment than the other medium format options out there.

Investment is a funny word to use and if the aim is to cover 'depreciation' then buying used lenses rules that out as they hold their prices very well and the body, sure that'll depreciate but no more so than anything else.

Once you factor in the price and quality of the images the 645z is the best camera in the world imho. All the time it's like that residuals will stay strong.

I paid £5150 for my 645z and if I keep it as long as my H4D50 even if I threw it in the bin it would still of had the equivalent rental cost of £1250 a year.

ndevlin

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Re: 645Z a good long term investment?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2015, 10:25:36 am »

Unless you're a working pro, any digital camera is about the worst investment south of airline shares.  

That said, I love my 645z.  It has never disappointed, and is truly the first digital camera that I have felt could be the last camera I ever owned.  It's not perfect, but usability is miles ahead of anything else in MF (save for the S2) and quality is epic.

While 'investment' is the wrong paradigm, if you are asking whether it's good value my answer is absolutely yes.  

The recent update the IT2 demonstrates a pleasing responsiveness by Pentax to the shortcomings of the platform and a commitment to the system.

One last thought: while it's easy to find a lot of naysayers and nigglers about the 645z system, it's very hard to find any unsatisfied owners.  That tells you something.



- N.  
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 10:28:30 am by ndevlin »
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Nick Devlin   @onelittlecamera        ww

tsjanik

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Re: 645Z a good long term investment?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2015, 04:43:17 pm »

+1 for the replies.  I've taught myself to think of digital cameras as consumables, not too much of a stretch since they replace film.  
I have had a 645D for over 4 years and recently acquired a 645Z (thanks in large part to some of the posters in this thread :)).  In my experience, the files from the D and Z are nearly indistinguishable when properly exposed at ISO 100-200.  That said, the high ISO and DR of the Z put the camera in a whole new category of versatility.  I never used TAV mode on the D, since it rarely left ISO 200; with the Z, I use it quite frequently, I set my shutter speed and f stop and let the camera pick the ISO (3200 limit).  For me, that alone was worth the price of admission.

The DR and ability to open shadows is quite impressive.  I accidentally exposed an image at 5 stops under.  I have attached heavy crops of the image opened in ACR.  In one case I did nothing except open the image, in the other I added 5 EV - nothing else was done.

Tom
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 04:59:31 pm by tsjanik »
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Paul2660

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Re: 645Z a good long term investment?
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2015, 05:02:54 pm »

Yes, the shadow recovery is most impressive with all the cameras with this 50MP chip, simply amazing. 

Your image is an excellent example. 

Paul
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Paul Caldwell
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tsjanik

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Re: 645Z a good long term investment?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2015, 06:08:46 pm »

.............
Your image is an excellent example. 

Paul


Thanks Paul.  I should have said I did it intentionally, then it would have been an excellently designed test instead of a screw up.
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Lacunapratum

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Re: 645Z a good long term investment?
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2015, 08:20:25 pm »

Congrats on the 645Z, Tom.  What a marvelous tool, isn't it?  The other Tom. 
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Clafleur

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Re: 645Z a good long term investment?
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2015, 10:27:47 pm »

Thanks, all, for the thoughtful comments.  I am, indeed, considering the 645Z in light of my own shooting priorities (landscapes, shooting both a la Weston, within a 50 feet of the car, and also on longer hikes).  For work on foot, I have the Sony a7r but when I don't have to go far would appreciate the option of a larger format for both intrinsic IQ and for larger printing.  (I also like to crop to a square format and the 645Z aspect ratio lends itself more to that.)  I didn't seriously consider earlier MF solutions because the challenge of focussing in the field, but with its CMOS sensor the 645Z now offers excellent live view at relatively reasonable cost and with other strong advantages for those primarily interested in field work.  I've rented the 645Z with its 55mm 'kit lens'.  I liked the IQ very much, found the weight not that objectionable for a short jaunt, and generally liked the ergonomics.

The two aspects of the 645Z that had given me pause were:

(1) the lenses: it appears the system isn't succesful enough in the market to attract other lens manufacturers and so one must rely on Pentax. The copy of the 55mm I rented was disappointing; below the quality of, for example, the Sony FE 55mm prime beyond the center of the frame.  I read elsewhere that the FA645 25mm is similarly disappointing compared to the Zeiss 21mm f1.4 (another lens I use via adapter on the a7r).  On the other hand, I have read good reviews of the 28-45mm zoom and the 90mm (regrettably, neither of which I can easily rent at my current location overseas) and these are the lenses I would likely use the most.  As I probably shoot 80% of my work at base ISO between f8 and f14, I am guessing from what I read elsewhere on this and other forums that some of Pentax's more reasonably priced legacy lenses might serve well also.  Any further comments on that would be much appreciated.

(2) the lack of an EVF: I appreciate that this is probably still a minority opinion, but I really like that the a7r's EVF has eliminated for me the need to focus while fiddling with a Hoodman loupe.  Having said that, I found the 645Z's titling screen at least made focussing more convenient than with fixed screens of cameras such as the Nikon 800 series, with which I also have a fair amount of experience.

It was with those thoughts in mind that I was seeking the experience of those of you who have access to these or similar systems to see if the 645Z's advantages are significant enough to outweigh its limitations over the longer term.  It sounds like that's the case, so, again, thanks for the great feedback.

Chris
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tsjanik

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Re: 645Z a good long term investment?
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2015, 11:18:12 pm »

Congrats on the 645Z, Tom.  What a marvelous tool, isn't it?  The other Tom. 

Hi The other Tom,

It's great.
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Gel

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Re: 645Z a good long term investment?
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2015, 06:52:45 am »

Hi Chris,
I've not seem the issues you have with the lenses. My medium format lens experience has been with the HC and Phamiya lenses and I mainly shoot people, but I do have all the Canon L series glass and the Pentax stuff is equal to or better than the aforementioned in many cases.

Open to interpretation of course, but I don't feel anything lacking when I use them. The biggest problem for me is the noise from the screw based AF system. But this is shared with the Hassy and Phase stuff too. I'd like SDM focusing across the lens range.

Ken R

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Re: 645Z a good long term investment?
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2015, 06:56:43 am »

If you do not need industry leading dynamic range, live view and high iso performance the 645D (used) is a really good deal right now. The Pentax 645 A and FA lenses (used) are also really good values. The 645D is still a very good camera.

That said, the 645z is a stunning camera and even at full price it is a good value.

Like it was mentioned, photo gear generally are really bad investments, unless you use them to make money then you can somewhat justify their purchase.
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Kolor-Pikker

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Re: 645Z a good long term investment?
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2015, 08:59:50 am »

Rather than use the word "investment", I would ask if it's a good purchase with future expansion in mind, in which case I do see the Pentax system as one that has potential. The lenses aren't nearly as expensive as some of their peers, many of the new ones will feature stabilization, and it could be a matter of time before we get leaf shutters or tilt-shifts as well. The question is of course when? Pentax still has to release a standard and long zoom as per their roadmap. It would be nice if they offered a bit more information the way Sony does.
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ndevlin

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Re: 645Z a good long term investment?
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2015, 09:02:12 am »

The 645z needs an electronic first curtain shutter.  It is SO high res that the shutter shake does degrade the the image at typical tripod speeds (go slow enough and it doesn't matter).

If you want a pseudo-view camera, and it sounds like you do, then get a 7r with one of the Actus thingies.  MF does NOT give 4x5 like DOF if that's your idea of landscape.

The closest you get is Hassy with their little patent-infringement tilt/shift rig (with the wides, a decent $15k investment) but neat tech.  
 
- N.
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Nick Devlin   @onelittlecamera        ww

LKaven

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Re: 645Z a good long term investment?
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2015, 08:13:02 am »

Financial return is not essential for an "investment".  Any useful or worthwhile result is sufficient.

From the OED:

Investment n.
1: The action or process of investing money for profit or material result
1.1: A thing that is worth buying because it may be profitable or useful in the future
1.2: An act of devoting time, effort, or energy to a particular undertaking with the expectation of a worthwhile result

Gel

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Re: 645Z a good long term investment?
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2015, 08:19:08 am »

For many as well it's a good opportunity to cash out a more expensive system.

I sold my H4D50 for more than I paid for the 645z. The 150mm HC lens I used for headshots I sold for £1200 and now I use the £500 150mm 645 FA.

On those two items alone I put at least a grand back into my bank account.

Chris Livsey

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Re: 645Z a good long term investment?
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2015, 04:53:15 pm »



The closest you get is Hassy with their little patent-infringement tilt/shift rig

Can't let that through without a correction :"Hasselblad Bron President and CEO Michael Hejtmanek commented “Today was a good day for Hasselblad and for photographers across the United States. The courts have decided that the patent infringement lawsuit preventing the sale of the Hasselblad Tilt Shift Adapter is without merit.”
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