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Author Topic: Looking for gloss spray lacquer  (Read 3627 times)

huguito

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Looking for gloss spray lacquer
« on: March 23, 2015, 05:26:07 pm »

I wan to try the Premier print shield gloss lacquer on spray cans.

I tried Adorama, Atlex and It Supples. They only carry the matte version.

Anyone has a supplier of this lacquer that carry the gloss finish?

Anyone using a different brand of gloss lacquer with great results?

I am in Los Angeles, in case that is a local supplier I can go directly instead of having it shipped.

Thanks

Hugo
 
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Some Guy

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Re: Looking for gloss spray lacquer
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2015, 05:45:00 pm »

I believe FreeStyle Photo in L.A. has the Premier Art lacquer as well as the Hanhemule (Might not be glossy though, somewhere between.).  They might carry the Marshall's Glossy protective spray too.  Fwiw, Premier Art is located in Ventura so not far away.

I was contemplating using an automotive clear coat is a super-gloss and can be buffed to an extreme gloss, but it was very expensive at about $300/quart.  Never tried it, but the auto paint shop seemed to think it would work as some airbrusher's use it as a protective overcoat.  It looks like the gloss on a metal Chromalux print.

SG
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MHMG

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Re: Looking for gloss spray lacquer
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2015, 05:47:10 pm »

I wan to try the Premier print shield gloss lacquer on spray cans.

I tried Adorama, Atlex and It Supples. They only carry the matte version.


Not quite sure what's being lost in translation here. AFAIK, The Premier Print Shield sold in spray cans has no matting agents in it whatsoever. I know of no matt version of the Print Shield spray product. Other sprays like Clearshield do offer gloss, satin, and matt finishes that are distinguished by matting agents (tiny slica particles) added to the more matt versions of those products.  I bought my last batch of Premier Print Shield in a 12 can case from IT Supplies. Shipped via ground since its flammable and volatile non aqueous solvent cannot be shipped by air.

Print Shield is also a very low viscosity spray, hence it will maintain the gloss and physical texture of the surface on a glossy/lustre type print, and also maintain the matt finish and texture on a matt surface inkjet print unless one puts so darn many coats on the print in which case all prints will go glossy.  If anything, on glossy/luster type inkjet media printed with pigmented inks you will see a slight increase in gloss and slightly increased Dmax values after a couple of coats, essentially no visual changes or perhaps ever so slight losses in Dmax  on matt fine art media like Hahnemuhle Photo Rag.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 05:51:46 pm by MHMG »
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Garnick

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Re: Looking for gloss spray lacquer
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2015, 10:30:46 am »

Not quite sure what's being lost in translation here. AFAIK, The Premier Print Shield sold in spray cans has no matting agents in it whatsoever. I know of no matt version of the Print Shield spray product. Other sprays like Clearshield do offer gloss, satin, and matt finishes that are distinguished by matting agents (tiny slica particles) added to the more matt versions of those products.  I bought my last batch of Premier Print Shield in a 12 can case from IT Supplies. Shipped via ground since its flammable and volatile non aqueous solvent cannot be shipped by air.

Print Shield is also a very low viscosity spray, hence it will maintain the gloss and physical texture of the surface on a glossy/lustre type print, and also maintain the matt finish and texture on a matt surface inkjet print unless one puts so darn many coats on the print in which case all prints will go glossy.  If anything, on glossy/luster type inkjet media printed with pigmented inks you will see a slight increase in gloss and slightly increased Dmax values after a couple of coats, essentially no visual changes or perhaps ever so slight losses in Dmax  on matt fine art media like Hahnemuhle Photo Rag.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

Hello Mark,

Just wondering if you have ever tested the Premier Eco Print Shield Aqueous Based coatings.  They of course come in Matte, Satin and Gloss varieties, but must be applied by brush, roller or HVLP sprayer.  I've used their product for many years only on canvas, and have been very satisfied with the results.  I don't do the stretching, so I send it out to a local framing company.  They have commented on numerous occasions that my canvases are the easiest to stretch, with no edge cracking or other issues.  I use only the Satin and Gloss, mixing them for a 50/50  Satin-Gloss finish as well as Satin and Gloss only.  That way my customer has a choice of three finishes.  About a year ago the framer called to tell me that there was an issue with one of the canvases, edge cracking.  I had never experienced that before and of course I always make sure the product is totally protected against below freezing temperatures.  I had just started using my most recent can of the coating, so I immediately called Premier Art and explained the situation to them.  They said that it had likely been improperly shipped and had probably experience freezing temperatures in transit, possibly the wrong airplane compartment.  They immediately notified my supplier in Toronto and I picked up a new can free of charge within a couple of days.  Excellent customer service from Premier Art in my opinion.  I am interested in your comments about this product if you have done any testing.

Gary   
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Gary N.
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MHMG

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Re: Looking for gloss spray lacquer
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2015, 06:27:53 pm »

Hello Mark,

Just wondering if you have ever tested the Premier Eco Print Shield Aqueous Based coatings.  They of course come in Matte, Satin and Gloss varieties, but must be applied by brush, roller or HVLP sprayer.  

Gary    

Hi Gary, yes I should have mentioned the Eco Print Shield to be more clear in the discussion that Premier Print Shield is an entirely different beast altogether from the aqueous-based coatings designed primarily to be rolled or applied by HPLP spray guns onto inkjet canvas media.  Eco Print Shield is indeed in this class of water-based acrylic emulsions and thus chemically similar to other popular aqueous-based acrylic coatings like Breathing Color Glamour II or ClearShield Type C LL coatings. These aqueous-based coatings are considered to be more environmentally friendly, and even with typical dilutions they generally create a much thicker coating than Premier Print Shield or its low viscosity solvent-based counterparts like Moab Desert Varnish and Hahnemuhle Protective Spray. So, on the upside, the aqueous based acrylic emulsion type coatings will make a thicker, more physically robust top coating that should protect the canvas image from handling abuse and airborne grease and grime much better than the thin coatings achieved with Premier Print Shield, etc.

Unfortunately, the testing I've done on some of these aqueous-based coated media suggests once again that there is no free lunch. I haven't done a lot of samples since I got little call over the years to test canvas media, but in the samples i did receive, I typically asked for and received a control sample printed with same printer/ink/media batch but left uncoated, and I then ran the coated samples side-by-side in test along with the uncoated control sample so that we could directly ascertain the influence of the coating on the lightfastness of the product. There are a few examples of these paired-comparison type tests for aqueous-based coatings in the AaI&A database. For example, Glamour II was tested as was the Clearshield Type C, but I don't have any tests for Premier EcoShield.  ID#'s 298 and 299, as a specific example, are the head-to-head comparison of Breathing Color Chromata White Canvas printed on an Epson 9800 printer with Epson UCK3 OEM ink set, where ID#298 was HVLP spray located with Glamour II whereas ID #299 had no additional coating. The coated sample got an AaI&A rating of 36-67 Megalux hours while the uncoated sample did much better with a rating of 106-119 megalux hours. This was a surprising finding that I didn't expect, and it played out the same way in other similar tests.

While the solvent based Print Shield in essentially all cases I've tested does admirably improve the light fastness of the print while also improving or leaving unchanged the initial image quality when pigmented inks were used, the obvious trend for the aqueous-based coatings is that light fastness is actually reduced despite manufacturers' claims to the contrary, sometimes by a small amount but sometimes by quite a significant amount as in ID#298 versus ID#299 cited above. Again, I should caution that I don't have a huge population of tests to draw sweeping conclusions from, but a concerning trend is that aqueous-base coatings apparently have some chemical compatibility problems with pigmented inkjet inks (at least Epson Ultrachrome sets to be specific). What may be happening is that the alkaline chemistry (typically ammonia) needed to emulsify and disperse the acrylic polymers into a primarily water-based solution is in all likelihood also attacking the pigmented ink resin encapsulation polymers in an adverse way when the coating gets applied to the canvas surface. Once might be able to avoid the issue by laying down a pre-coat layer of a solvent spray like Print Shield, but that would be much more work and probably unsatisfactory on many levels to folks who make canvas inkjet prints :( And this pre-coat suggestion would have to be tested to see if it in fact is able to adequately isolate the resin encapsulated pigments from the aqueous acrylic top coat during the application and dry-down period.

All this said, I realize that many canvas prints are intended for commercial and home decor markets where the need for long term light fastness is not so great and where only medium term print permanence (5-25 years on display) is probably all that is necessary given that people often redecorate before most prints are likely to fade.  In this market, the ability to clean the print surface and avoid mechanically induced damage is probably the far greater concern for overall product integrity.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 06:42:03 pm by MHMG »
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enduser

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Re: Looking for gloss spray lacquer
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2015, 07:23:11 am »

How do dye inks do using the solvent spray can products - bearing in mind that aqueous products seriously disturb the colors?
Thanks for all your good advice. Mark
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Garnick

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Re: Looking for gloss spray lacquer
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2015, 09:30:35 am »

Hi Gary, yes I should have mentioned the Eco Print Shield to be more clear in the discussion that Premier Print Shield is an entirely different beast altogether from the aqueous-based coatings designed primarily to be rolled or applied by HPLP spray guns onto inkjet canvas media.  Eco Print Shield is indeed in this class of water-based acrylic emulsions and thus chemically similar to other popular aqueous-based acrylic coatings like Breathing Color Glamour II or ClearShield Type C LL coatings. These aqueous-based coatings are considered to be more environmentally friendly, and even with typical dilutions they generally create a much thicker coating than Premier Print Shield or its low viscosity solvent-based counterparts like Moab Desert Varnish and Hahnemuhle Protective Spray. So, on the upside, the aqueous based acrylic emulsion type coatings will make a thicker, more physically robust top coating that should protect the canvas image from handling abuse and airborne grease and grime much better than the thin coatings achieved with Premier Print Shield, etc.

Unfortunately, the testing I've done on some of these aqueous-based coated media suggests once again that there is no free lunch. I haven't done a lot of samples since I got little call over the years to test canvas media, but in the samples i did receive, I typically asked for and received a control sample printed with same printer/ink/media batch but left uncoated, and I then ran the coated samples side-by-side in test along with the uncoated control sample so that we could directly ascertain the influence of the coating on the lightfastness of the product. There are a few examples of these paired-comparison type tests for aqueous-based coatings in the AaI&A database. For example, Glamour II was tested as was the Clearshield Type C, but I don't have any tests for Premier EcoShield.  ID#'s 298 and 299, as a specific example, are the head-to-head comparison of Breathing Color Chromata White Canvas printed on an Epson 9800 printer with Epson UCK3 OEM ink set, where ID#298 was HVLP spray located with Glamour II whereas ID #299 had no additional coating. The coated sample got an AaI&A rating of 36-67 Megalux hours while the uncoated sample did much better with a rating of 106-119 megalux hours. This was a surprising finding that I didn't expect, and it played out the same way in other similar tests.

While the solvent based Print Shield in essentially all cases I've tested does admirably improve the light fastness of the print while also improving or leaving unchanged the initial image quality when pigmented inks were used, the obvious trend for the aqueous-based coatings is that light fastness is actually reduced despite manufacturers' claims to the contrary, sometimes by a small amount but sometimes by quite a significant amount as in ID#298 versus ID#299 cited above. Again, I should caution that I don't have a huge population of tests to draw sweeping conclusions from, but a concerning trend is that aqueous-base coatings apparently have some chemical compatibility problems with pigmented inkjet inks (at least Epson Ultrachrome sets to be specific). What may be happening is that the alkaline chemistry (typically ammonia) needed to emulsify and disperse the acrylic polymers into a primarily water-based solution is in all likelihood also attacking the pigmented ink resin encapsulation polymers in an adverse way when the coating gets applied to the canvas surface. Once might be able to avoid the issue by laying down a pre-coat layer of a solvent spray like Print Shield, but that would be much more work and probably unsatisfactory on many levels to folks who make canvas inkjet prints :( And this pre-coat suggestion would have to be tested to see if it in fact is able to adequately isolate the resin encapsulated pigments from the aqueous acrylic top coat during the application and dry-down period.

All this said, I realize that many canvas prints are intended for commercial and home decor markets where the need for long term light fastness is not so great and where only medium term print permanence (5-25 years on display) is probably all that is necessary given that people often redecorate before most prints are likely to fade.  In this market, the ability to clean the print surface and avoid mechanically induced damage is probably the far greater concern for overall product integrity.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

WOW!  Well, I had to ask.  Not quite the type of info I was expecting or hoping for.  However, your reply was definitely very much to the point, as always, and much appreciated as well.  In my workflow I dilute the ECO coatings by 20%(distilled water) for rolling, as suggested by Premier Imaging.  Two coats of Satin. The final coat is either Satin, Satin-Gloss or Gloss, as required by the customer.  The Satin-Gloss mix seems to be the most popular and the one I like best as well.  If it would be of any use I can print two canvases and coat one as usual and send them along for you to test when time permits.  In my setup spraying is out of the question(not enough room) so rolling the coating is the only option, one that I have perfected during the 7 or 8 years I've been printing canvas.  I will agree that many(including myself) who use aqueous based coatings would feel that spraying a solvent coating as the base layer would not be an option they would want to deal with, for various reasons.  One of which would be the fact that the numbers are not in yet to show that procedure as being better than totally aqueous coating.  The other reasons are obvious I would think.  Nevertheless, as mentioned, please let me know if you would like me to send along a test of my ECO Print Shield coating procedure.  It probably wouldn't happen for a week or so, but I'd be happy to do it.

Thanks again for the reply Mark.
Gary
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Gary N.
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MHMG

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Re: Looking for gloss spray lacquer
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2015, 02:01:54 pm »

How do dye inks do using the solvent spray can products - bearing in mind that aqueous products seriously disturb the colors?
Thanks for all your good advice. Mark

Sorry it took me a while to reply to this question, but I wanted to provide an I* metric evaluation of a dye-based sample I had recently sprayed with Print Shield. Attached is a PDF file showing the "before and after" results of spraying an Epson Premium Photo Paper Glossy sample printed with an Epson All-in-One printer that uses the latest Epson Claria dye set. I sprayed the print with just one coat of Print Shield.

The PDF itemizes the measured color and tonal shifts that occurred to the AaI&A standard 30 patch color test target. This target contains the 24 standard Macbeth Color Checker patches plus an additional six colors comprising additional lighter and darker skin tones and also the pure unprinted media white along with the full system's printed Dmax. I* and Delta E measurements are reported.

While the average color and tone retention after spraying was very good to excellent in this sample, real color accuracy problems appear in select colors that tend to have the higher ink loading, notably the dark skin tones and deep reds and purples along with the darker grays that are printed with lots of cyan, magenta, and yellow dye (but interestingly enough not the Dmax which is printed solely and maximally with just the Claria black dye). For the worst three patches (10% of the 30-patch color sample population), I* color accuracy dropped to 60%. That's not good, and the visual result is that the richer and darker colors tend to get somewhat muddier in tone and/or duller in colorfulness.  While a custom profile could no doubt compensate for some of the changes that occurred, I suspect that the richest most colorful values are losing enough chroma that no profile is going to bring back full system color gamut. Bottom line, the dyes are migrating to varying degrees even with this non-aqueous based spray coating.

I've experimented on various media and also using Canon's newest  Chromalife 100+ dye set as well. Results vary from better than this sample noted above to even worse than this sample, but in all cases the Print Shield was causing additional unwanted dye migration that tended to reduce the initial image quality rather than improve it, especially in the rich dark colors and tones. I've also tried Lascaux Fixative on the same print media. It may seem hard to believe but Laxcaux Fixative is even lower viscosity than Print Shield, so the final coating is extremely thin, but its solvent formulation went a little easier on the dye migration than the Print Shield formulation. Nonetheless the trends were all the same. My advice to those who want to try coating dye-base prints is just to test your choice of spray with your choice of media and look carefully for any signs of "muddiness" in the richer colors and tones.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 02:27:25 pm by MHMG »
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John Nollendorfs

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Re: Looking for gloss spray lacquer
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2015, 03:23:11 pm »

Your findings on spray coatings is very interesting indeed Mark. Thank you for the work you have done in this regard. I'm especially interested in the results results you are showing with the Epson inks on canvas--coated vs non coated. Have you done any "ozone" testing, vs light testing only? Just curious. I have been recommending all canvas' should be coated for physical protection, as well as atmospheric contaminants. Maybe my recommendations are wrong? If we like a semigloss to gloss canvas appearance, maybe using those type canvas' without spraying is alright after all? Sure save a lot of work!
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MHMG

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Re: Looking for gloss spray lacquer
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2015, 04:25:10 pm »

... I'm especially interested in the results results you are showing with the Epson inks on canvas--coated vs non coated. Have you done any "ozone" testing, vs light testing only? Just curious. I have been recommending all canvas' should be coated for physical protection, as well as atmospheric contaminants. Maybe my recommendations are wrong?


See my earlier remarks in this thread on aqueous-based coatings on canvas and in the context of pigmented ink sets. I strongly believe images on canvas inkjet media by and large do need to be top coated. As with traditional paintings on canvas, that top coat serves a dual purpose. First, it is decorative in cases where it alters the gloss level (more gloss or more matt finish as desired) according to the artist's original intent, and second, it provides a "sacrificial" layer that paintings conservators can later clean, strip back and recoat if necessary.  Overall, it helps the unglazed artwork to resist the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune on display, so I think the physical protection benefits really do outweigh the production and cost issues, and in most cases any decreases in chemical stability over time that the coating might impose.

As for Ozone testing, the Aardenburg testing methodology can easily be extended beyond light fade testing to Ozone, humidity, thermal, and other types of environmental or iniitial image quality tests, just as easily as, for example, applying it to the "before and after" spray coating image quality test results I shared previously in this thread.  I had hoped the AaI&A digital print research program would eventually over time grow in membership and in donations such that I could take on these extra testing scenarios, but that notion has proven to be very wishful thinking on my part.  Ozone testing in particular requires very expensive test chambers.

kind regards,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 09:31:46 am by MHMG »
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huguito

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Re: Looking for gloss spray lacquer
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2015, 05:10:45 pm »

I was under the impression that the Premier lacquer could be had in at least two finishes, matte and gloss.

I just spoke with someone on Premier, he tells me that its only one spray, and the way you build gloss on the surface, if that's your goal, is layering several thin coats.

Did I misunderstood?

Hugo
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