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Author Topic: Frame Selection  (Read 8690 times)

Mike Sellers

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Frame Selection
« on: March 09, 2015, 02:22:44 pm »

getting ready to do some 30x40 prints of mostly colorful fall color scenes. What color/style frame should I use? I would like to use a poly style frame for the light weight. Would a gold color frame be appropriate or a darker walnut style frame look good? I found a wholesaler that sells ready made 30x40 frames at $300.00 for 10 frames.
Mike
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bill t.

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Re: Frame Selection
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2015, 05:35:25 pm »

Gold has been the kiss of framing death in recent years, especially for photography.  I would suggest you avoid it.  Unless you are presenting master-level paintings of floral arrangements or pink-toned, Renoir-esque nudes.  I won't make specific recommendations because framing taste has a lot of regional variation.  Here in New Mexico 3 to 5 inch wide bronze moulding sells pretty well on medium level art, although you do find some very fancy compo and even hand carved and gilded gold frames around some very expensive pieces in the best galleries.

As a general caveat about all moulding, never buy anything without seeing a current sample.  You should request a "chip" rather than a corner sample.  A chip is just 3" of moulding cut straight across from the end of a stick.  Corner samples tend to be made from stock from several manufacturing runs in the past, while chips are usually cut from current stock and will lead to fewer surprises than outdated corner samples.

You must very carefully vet your poly choices because about 98% of poly comes with a plastic gloss finish and cheesy patterns that just scream plastic, but there are a very few nice ones with very natural looking finishes, for instance from Garrett Moulding.  Spend a day wandering through your local galleries and take lots of notes not just about frames, but also about surface finishes, reflection issues, placement issues, sizes, and everything that strikes you as significant. That will help you to later see your own work more objectively.  Tuesdays are a good day for such gallery crawling as not much will be going on and the bored sales people may be happy to chat about what does and doesn't sell.  Their incomes depend on those sales, and they will have strong opinions.

For maybe 10 years the hands-down favorite moulding color has been 1 to 2 inch wide matte black.  How sad is that?  But true.

Don't think I don't like gold frames.  If my price point were in five figures, I might be using these.  But only on Canyon Road just off the old Santa Fe Trail.
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disneytoy

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Re: Frame Selection
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2015, 07:50:25 pm »

I'm seeing a lot of White frames in galleries on the West coast. I will be framing a show of 25  40x60s in white.

A fun thing to do if you are good in PS. Take a photo in the gallery of a frame you like. Then you can composite your art in that frame on the wall. You can get a good idea what that framing treatment will look like.

It is also a good cheap way to show a customer approx. what it will look like in a certain frame.
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bill t.

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Re: Frame Selection
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2015, 10:22:14 pm »

White frames is the current banner for bleeding edge through somewhat avant garde contemporary work, or for work that was recently bleeding edge etc but is now normalizing.  Think Miami Basel, Paris Photo Los Angeles, stuff like that.  I think it would be a stretch to show classic fall photography in white, but I'm willing to be surprised.  It's important to size up your audience ahead of a show, and then pander to the max.  I'm planning to test a print in a white floater frame, not floated at the front but sunken to the back as though sitting at the bottom of a box.  That's to pander to an emerging young, condo buying market near an important gallery for me.  I hope.  Those ingrates will probably want black aluminum sectional.
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BobShaw

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Re: Frame Selection
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2015, 10:39:46 pm »

White is the new black.
If you want to see what any image will look like framed with variations on mat boards then you can upload it to my website and select the framing options from Custom Framing - Quote and Simulation Tool.
http://www.aspirationimages.com

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dgberg

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Re: Frame Selection
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2015, 07:14:54 am »

A little more about equipment then the actual frames.
If you are selling that many pieces you may want to look into setting up shop to do your own.
For years I have given up any and all framing even with the equipment I have because I did not want to be in the framing business but….
The canvas gallery wrap business has gone a little flat so we started changing out some of the samples in our showroom to framed canvas on gatorboard.
It is finally taking off. Maybe it is true, you are not going to sell it unless you show it.
We had the CTD dual mitre saw with an AMP corrugated stapler which does a fantastic job putting together stretcher frames.
The corrugated staple machine does not do a good job on mdf,or softwood frames so we just did not do framing, period.
The frame requests kept coming so I finally splurged an got the AMP U-300. It is the entry level model at $2500 but for now it is more then enough machine.
Gosh what a difference over that corrugated stapler. 5 minutes to cut a frame with the CTD and maybe all of 5 minutes to assemble with V nails.
Easy to learn even if you have never done it and takes up very little space.
A very good investment in your business if you are a craftsman and enjoy this type of work and want to make more money!
Opens up many new avenues for your business. Start buying case lots of your favorite moulding and save a ton.
Just being able to do one offs of an expensive moulding for that special client will pay this stuff off in a heartbeat.

Canvas Miracle Mucked to Gator in Mahogany frame.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 05:46:38 am by Dan Berg »
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bill t.

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Re: Frame Selection
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2015, 02:58:56 pm »

Hey Dan, that looks great up there on the wall!

Those rounds are a classic look that just can't go wrong.  The inner lip helps in that kind of treatment, it reduces the perceived need for a matte by separating the image from the main part of the frame.  Peter Lik used that style of moulding for a long time before going to rugged looking Roma leaf veneers.

I frame almost everything, and haven't made a gallery wrap in a long time.  Have recently done some experimentation with ACM panels, and while those have earned me some new clients with contemporary decor, what puts the most food on my table is what's in your picture.  Frames give you a strong competitive edge at all venues, it's very difficult for wraps and panel treatments to compete against framed pieces side by side on the same wall.  Most buyers think framing costs a ton of money, and even with a pretty stiff mark up for your efforts they tend to feel they're getting a bargain and saving hassles over a wrap only.

As I'm sure you know, look out for those hardwoods!  Not many underpinners can drive into that stuff.  I know some folks using thumbnailers for that purpose.  Scary name.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 03:04:10 pm by bill t. »
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dgberg

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Re: Frame Selection
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2015, 04:05:16 pm »

Thank you Bill,

Bought my first case of the moulding shown above $3.21 a running foot.
Price for chops of the same moulding $10.12 per foot. Thats a huge savings. That money is now going in my pocket. :)

Justan

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Re: Frame Selection
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2015, 04:06:38 pm »

Quote
I found a wholesaler that sells ready made 30x40 frames at $300.00 for 10 frames.

Beware of cheap frames as they often cost more in lost sales then you can ever recover through savings.

Fwiw, If you have a local wholesale picture frame distributor or even know of some in the area or region contact them, have your your business license info nearby, preferably scanned and in the format of a PDF file, and ask them to set up an account.

Once you set up an account, they will no-doubt provide access to at least hundreds of different awesome moulding types along with reasonable prices. In addition, you will get access to vast frame making resources and capabilities for a lower cost than you might imagine. Many also make completed frames on request. All you have to do is tell them the size of the works and also the moulding materials you want to use and some other minor details. A day or 2 later you can pick up the finished works. Often they also include delivery. It is worth some phone calls to find out….

Imo you need to make at least a couple of hundred frames per year to justify setting up a frame making shop. Once you do the cost per frame drops a lot. Of course the other side of the debate is that once people find out you do custom frame making, you will receive a number of inquiries...

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Frame Selection
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2015, 04:19:57 pm »

... I found a wholesaler that sells ready made 30x40 frames at $300.00 for 10 frames.

Care to share? Or PM me instead.

BobShaw

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Re: Frame Selection
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2015, 06:19:59 pm »

I found a wholesaler that sells ready made 30x40 frames at $300.00 for 10 frames.
Mike
If that works for you and they are quality frames then fine. However you are then making the print to match the frame. You should be making the frame to match the print. That is what custom framing does. So the majority of the value (the print) is being compromised by the garnish.

As an example (i will try to work in inches), if you have a 30 x 40 frame and you have a 2" border on the mat then your image needs to be 26" x 36". That aspect ratio may not look good for a lot of images. You are therefore forced to use undesirable aspect ratios or use borders which are not symmetrical which usually looks poor.

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disneytoy

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Re: Frame Selection
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2015, 11:31:05 pm »

Great info Dan!

I'm looking into a cheap way to make a couple dozen 40x60ish white frames for a Museum show. Great info.

Maxi
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Mike Sellers

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Re: Frame Selection
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2015, 01:58:12 pm »

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bill t.

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Re: Frame Selection
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2015, 03:25:47 pm »

Buy one each of a couple smaller samples first.  You heard it here.
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Jglaser757

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Re: Frame Selection
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2015, 01:51:28 pm »

I tried brown and black samples then settled for white with no Mat. That is the trend right now, but you have to decide on how you want to present your work. It's very personal!
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davidh202

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Re: Frame Selection
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2015, 11:06:11 pm »

I've been a custom picture framer for over 30 years and if the pictures on that site are  true representations   of their products, those are some of the trashiest looking frames I have ever seen :o  I wouldn't put my art in them !!!!
I agree with Bill, get small samples to be sure you like them!!
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Justan

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Re: Frame Selection
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2015, 10:22:32 am »

I recently came across a company named Michelangelo Moulding who makes a nice cross section of moulding types, including some that are polystyrene. They have distributors in the USA and Canada.

http://www.michelangelomoulding.com/html/polystyrene.html

bill t.

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Re: Frame Selection
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2015, 01:57:03 pm »

Michelangelo does have very nice mouldings and they are a very good value for the money.  Aesthetically safe for institutional art.  They're a Canadian company but have distribution centers in the US too.

I bought 10 representative boxes a few years ago and found that about half of them were hardwoods that were almost impossible to cut on my Morso chopper, and almost impossible to underpin.  You would need a saw, and a biscuit joiner or thumbnailer for that subset.  It's why I bought a saw.  A lot of Indonesian mouldings are the same way.  BTW, saws are better even with the sawdust, end of story.

Always get a chip or corner sample first, and test it with your equipment.  If that looks promising, buy at most 1 box of each design to see what the current stock is like, because it changes a lot over time, and that goes for all manufacturers even the best.

The rabbet-less "flats" from Michelangelo are kind of interesting from a production sense.  You can screw on big pieces of art to the back of those things, so long as the substrate doesn't come within more than 1/2 inch of the edge.  Eliminates precision cutting, and it's a cheap way to go.
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Justan

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Re: Frame Selection
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2015, 10:47:59 am »

Quote
Aesthetically safe for institutional art.

LOL.

I’ve found that showing a variety of frame types at the display invites people to ask about art work #1 with frame type #3, which is not productive. Having many frame types also degrades the display. Due to that I settled on 2 frame types. One for the smaller works and one for the larger ones.

Re the problems you noted with an underpinner, what pressure were you using at the compressor and what kind of v-nails? Most issues come from too low of pressure and/or the wrong kind of v nails. The nails for soft woods are far less sharp than for hard woods. The design of the soft wood nail is to help bunch the wood tissue which tightens the bond between nail and wood. In contrast the hardwood nails are designed to slice more readily through the media since the strength is provided by the wood itself, and of course the glue. Many underpinners don’t restrict the pressure at the v-nailer, so if your compressor will generate 130 to 150 psi so will the underpinner's nail driver.

bill t.

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Re: Frame Selection
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2015, 03:42:09 pm »

I have an industrial strength underpinner and the correct, wood-smashing nails, but even that wasn't enough.  With moulding 158-20, I had to stand with both feet on the Morso pedal to take the tiniest bites, and the blades were dull after cutting a single corner, no exaggeration.  Maybe that was an unusual batch, but what a PITA.  I had sold a piece based on a corner sample, and that was a lesson well learned.  My poor Morso was designed for kinder, gentler moulding than we see in these harsher times, and now sits sadly in the corner.

A couple years ago Michelangelo's 262-50 was an incredible bargain for a genuine veneer moulding, and was so popular is was unobtainable most of the time.  BTW.  Some of the others used way too much compo, and in some cases paper veneers, but hey they were fairly priced for what they were and they look great on the wall.  I gave up on Michelangelo because US distribution was flumoxing during the recesssion, maybe it's better now.
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