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Author Topic: Thank you adding "Excluding 35mm"  (Read 10087 times)

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Thank you adding "Excluding 35mm"
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2015, 05:23:33 pm »

I like the images also.   Apple does clean, simple graphic design where almost anything looks good that big.

I just posted it thinking the PEO,  (Pixel Examiners Office) would tear it apart.

I guess they don't use I phones.

Actually in the pre PEO days, this type of post would have brought up discussion of how Apple selected imagery for an ad campaign.   In this campaign, rather than commission photographers that can produce imagery with regularity, they searched 10,000 iphone images to find a handful of photos good enough to show.

That would have been an interesting discussion, but that discussion doesn't happen anymore.    

Perhaps you aren't getting these feedbacks here because the thread is about a different topic?

I am sure you'd get very good response if you started another thread on this point.

I personally like some of these images and agree that they may or may not have been captured by photographers able to deliver the goods on a regular basis. But to me it isn't very different from what stock photography has always been. Apple has just applied an iPhone6 filter to Flickr.

That's a pretty isolated case of smart marketing in that it's about camera marketing, it does't tell us much about the evolution of photography that we didn't know already IMHO.

This being said, can we talk about iPhone photography in this section? I do own an iPhone 6... ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

bcooter

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Re: Thank you adding "Excluding 35mm"
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2015, 05:40:19 pm »

Perhaps you aren't getting these feedbacks here because the thread is about a different topic?


I'm not trying to get feedback, or be the most popular person on the block.  

Don't care about tweets, likes, or feeds.  That's just not in my dna.

I care about photography and image creation.

Also don't care what cameras people use, or the format of the wafer.   That's old think and means nothing to me, though I'll admit I like larger cameras than smaller, like professional vs. prosumer, though I own both.

Not that it matters, but I use what I use because I want to.   Love working with my Leica, because to me it's a well designed pleasure and it makes me work in a way I find unique.  

It's not as easy as other cameras, but if I wanted easy I would have chosen a different profession.

_____________________________________________________


When I was in my early 20's working as an AD, a photographer came in with some amazing photography and I was hooked.

I went to my boss, gave two weeks notice and never looked back.

From that point on photographer wan't a job description, it is as much my being as my surname.    

To me I learned the technical aspects to produce my brand of art.  Technique wasn't about noise control or how much lattitude a sensor had, it was how to craft an image around the the liabilities of a film or a system.

Actually, it was more than that, it was how to USE the liabilities of a system to produce something unique.

Today it seems different. There seems to be a group dead set on having a camera that will shoot at any iso and have more lattitude than the human eye.    I don't understand that because I want to produce something the brain can dream, not just what the human eye can replicate.

In fact there seems to be a group that is dead set to prove their choice of camera is the "correct" choice.   I don't think that's possible.

The early RG forums were a gas.  People learned, fought, argued, actually argued enough that the forums ultimatly blew up, though there was rarely a day when I didn't learn something or at the very least enjoy myself.

After RG many moved over here then the image makers, especially professionals that cared about the art, vs. only the technical drifted away to the point they now are mostly gone.

Michael does a great job with these forums, doesn't moderate heavily but today these forums won't blow up because many of the image makers with that overwhelming passion aren't here anymore

They are replaced by the PEO.

We don't have threads that say, "look at what I can do with my digital back" or why I selected this location, or how cool is it that the oversharpening of 21mpx can assist in producing a unique look.

We now have negative threads that say a camera maker is doomed, or how bad shadow noise is in a certain brand and those are just the titles, not the the body of the thread.

I guess the answer is it's the way of the world though I don't accept that.   I know there are great photographers willing to share, but I can promise you most of them don't give a whit about dr or noise or twenty billion iso.

They care about the final image and go to great lengths to produce it, regardless of the equipment they use.

But in regards to the Apple I phone billboards they're ok photos, not great but ok.  The only thing that bothers me is I can make a list of 20 photographers I know personally that if you put their photos in the same exact medium, people wouldn't say "that's nice" they'd say Holy Shit that's great and not because of the camera, but the talent that operates the camera.

IMO

BC

« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 05:45:18 pm by bcooter »
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Josef Isayo

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Re: Thank you adding "Excluding 35mm"
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2015, 07:13:06 pm »

I miss posts from Tucker, T-Mark, and few other working photogs who talked about real world experiences and rarely brought up specs and charts. This site like all others, has gone to the keyboard photographers.

Craig Lamson

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Re: Thank you adding "Excluding 35mm"
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2015, 07:26:59 pm »

BC, you hit on a very interesting point.  The old RG forum was great, and it was the place to be for talking about image making, both professional or not.  This place is close, but it's not the same, and that's a real shame.  Recent professional works is the closest thing I've seen, format be damned.

I'm an old coot (sorry, coot) and this is the only profession I've ever really known.  I feel privileged that I was able to make this my life's work.  That said I don't have a viable business need for mf at this point.  Heck my clients have never said a word about what camera I use since I got that first 1ds.  I know MF and LF very well, they were the mainstays of my work for decades.  To be honest I really do miss shooting the 4x5 and seeing those E-6 films on the light box.  It was amazing.  But times change and so have the deadlines and the budgets.  Those days of sweating all the fine details and  shooting a box of roids to get one great image are gone, at least for me.

I don't care what format people shoot.  The exchange of images and information on how it was done and why is far more important.

If someone is so wrapped up in a format or a brand, and not the process, they are missing the point entirely.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Thank you adding "Excluding 35mm"
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2015, 07:33:12 pm »

James,

I agree with you, but technical posts about MF gear don't help anymore than technical posts about DR or iPhones.

Enforcing a strict no 35mm talk will not help getting arty talk back, those are unrelated to format. There is just as much talented work created with MF as there is with 35mm.

Yes, cameras are just tools, some tools are better than others for some jobs. Discussing this is IMHO relevant and so is the creation of art with cameras. I don't see why adults can't discuss both topics in parallel?

Cheers,
Bernard

paulmoorestudio

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Re: Thank you adding "Excluding 35mm"
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2015, 08:49:06 pm »

some random thoughts…I am here because I, like others, have photography deeply imbedded in my soul.  I had a grip on a Nikon F way before I touched a girl, I have spent more time composing on large format ground glass under dark cloth than looking at a monitor..although that is being eclispsed. Yes, I studied minor's zone system, I watched Ansel make a print in his darkroom, I know a densitometer from a diachronic head.  Yet what is important is the image, both those mid century techies preached exactly that.  On many of my commercial shoots I would fall for the type 59 or 665 polaroid.. knowing that the film was never going to have that same imperfect quality that happened to make the image sing, but more in keeping with what the client needed.  Some of my favorite personal digital shots are from the iPhone 1 and now my 4, this once busy photographer can't afford a 6, but really I still get some nice ones from the 4. As BC mentioned, it is what you do with the thing to create. 
Photography has always been a lure for a range of image makers, techie geeks who are better off focusing on a lens chart to off the chart artists who rely on tech support. Most of us are in the mix somewhere.  Maybe I belong in another subset of LL and will check out others to see.  I appreciate the knowledge and diligence of the pixel masters, but for my brain it gets a bit tedious.  I wish more working pros participated because when you make images day in and day out with your ass on the line you hone your craft and the knowledge you gain is of interest to those that aspire to that level. I think the draw here is that when photographers who use similar equipment on a variety of situations and subject matter it is interesting, but when just the mechanics or specs are shared then it is too dry.  I don't shoot with canon, or nikon or whatever but I can still appreciate how the piece of equipment translated a photographers vision and either worked or didn't.  sorry to go on, but another thing that drives me crazy about this notion of sensor size, get real, large format is 8x10 to dennis Manarchy's monster view camera..small format is iPhone to 2x2 inches, unless you are Manarchy and a few others, you live in a small format world with a ton of possible pixels…with all those pixels thrown out when converted to 72 dpi on your screen for viewing. Lets just try to slush along with whatever we are shooting and do good work..here is an iPhone 4 shot wednesday that could work for Danner boots.
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ACH DIGITAL

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Re: Thank you adding "Excluding 35mm"
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2015, 09:00:50 pm »

People should worry about their quality label and not the camera they use.
I'm very hard on myself to get the best I can, first of all aesthetically and second technically.
I'd rather use a DSLR and make good statement than having a MF and don't be able to make a powerful image!
I even see very good technical images here with very little soul.

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Antonio Chagin
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ACH DIGITAL

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Re: Thank you adding "Excluding 35mm"
« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2015, 09:05:41 pm »

I wonder too, why some people defend medium format so much, is it because it makes them feel better photographer just for that or is it because they can tell a client the sensor they use "would make better photographs".
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Antonio Chagin
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synn

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Re: Thank you adding "Excluding 35mm"
« Reply #48 on: March 07, 2015, 01:47:31 am »

BC, I tip my proverbial hat and raise my literal glass of Hakushu single malt in your general direction.
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David Eichler

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Re: Thank you adding "Excluding 35mm"
« Reply #49 on: March 07, 2015, 03:39:53 pm »

I propose that the basic topic of this forum be changed to something like technical cameras and equipment, in which case you could include the use of perspective correction lenses and using small format cameras as digital back, since the technical quality of small format keeps improving all the time, and at a greater rate than medium format digital backs.

I would also like to request that people avoid getting too strict in their opinions about the content in this forum, since, from time to time there are important topics covered here are that are seldom if ever addressed in other forums. Lighting is one example.

In any case, where photographers are considering small format versus medium format for their work, then I think small format should be part of the discussion, though I think getting too far into the technical details can sometimes be counterproductive, except for engineers and manufacturers.
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Scotty-S

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Re: Thank you adding "Excluding 35mm"
« Reply #50 on: March 07, 2015, 04:53:54 pm »

There is a valid point to all of this.

To be frank, you would have had to have you head under a rock for about 5 years to not know about the Nikon d8xx and the Sony ax etc etc.  We all know what they are capable of, shadow recover this, dynamic range that, we love Sony this, we love Nikon that, Otus is the best yada yada yada.

All of us who bought a MF camera did so because for whatever the reason, we didn't want a D or A.

So for those who have the D8xx or the Ax, why all the fuss in reminding everybody about how good it is and why we should compare. 

I for one fell in love with the usability and feel in your hand of the original 645D, bought one and now upgraded to the 645Z and am happier than I have been in years.  I would love a tech camera too with a wide angle lens for stitching and tilting, and when I visit a post about this topic in the next few years, the last thing I want to hear about is how good the Canon 17tse is on an A7r.

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bcooter

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Re: Thank you adding "Excluding 35mm"
« Reply #51 on: March 08, 2015, 04:01:23 pm »

deleted

It's really not worth an argument.

BC
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 08:02:12 pm by bcooter »
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Martin Ranger

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Re: Thank you adding "Excluding 35mm"
« Reply #52 on: March 08, 2015, 05:34:50 pm »


Without being a mind reader, I wonder what Michael thought when he built these forums.

Just guessing, but I bet he wanted a place where people could discuss art, technique, style, all relating to image creation.

BC

I think part of the problem is how the forum is divided up into different categories, which forces the discussion into, well, format categories. This may have made sense in the film days, but I am not sure it still does. Maybe if there was a forum for discussing technical aspects of cameras (of all sensor sizes) and lenses, and one for talking about how to make great photos (with all sensor sizes), the format wars could be contained at least somewhat.
On second thought, probably not.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Thank you adding "Excluding 35mm"
« Reply #53 on: March 08, 2015, 06:27:46 pm »

... I just posted an example of flash photography of 2 little girls, which is a very minor subject in these fora, and just joked that the models didn't have any photoshop breasts. I don't understand your over-reaction...

I suspect James was talking about a different photo in that thread (a girl in water), not your two little girls?

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Thank you adding "Excluding 35mm"
« Reply #54 on: March 08, 2015, 06:53:00 pm »

Hi,

I guess it could be that James had a bad day.

I posted that link to that image, and I feel it was OK in that context as it was taken with an 85/1.4 at stated 1/3200s and obvious fill light. The image was clearly attributed to the photographer. If anyone feels that it is improper I can replace the linked image with a link address.

Getting back to James's comments, there is a button called "New Topic" to start any new thread. If he wants a thread about images, he can start one. It is not very hard. But, he may not get a lot of discussion on images on an "Equipment & Techniques" forum.

Best regards
Erik

Slobodan,

I believe that James was refering to a joke I made about "photoshoped tits" in my little girls post, that was not even refering to the image linked to by Erik.

Cheers,
Bernard


« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 07:31:44 pm by ErikKaffehr »
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bcooter

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Re: Thank you adding "Excluding 35mm"
« Reply #55 on: March 08, 2015, 08:04:18 pm »

I suspect James was talking about a different photo in that thread (a girl in water), not your two little girls?

it was about the model in the water and the response.

BC
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mikeyam

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Re: Thank you adding "Excluding 35mm"
« Reply #56 on: March 08, 2015, 11:26:24 pm »

I just feel like I have to chime in right now, random as it may be. I've been lurking around here since 2010, only posting 12 times so far (including this one!), but let me just say to James, I hope you stick around here. I always look forward to your posts, and even as a lurker, I recognize the issues you have with the forum.

That's all I have to say I guess... hopefully, I can bring some new life to the forum if or when I get my hands on a 645D.
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jbaxendell

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Re: Thank you adding "Excluding 35mm"
« Reply #57 on: March 09, 2015, 01:42:11 pm »

I have been lurking since 2004. I moved here when the RG forums blew up. I agree 100% with James that the discussions on the RG forums were far more interesting. Who can forget things like Mark Tucker's PlungerCam.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Thank you adding "Excluding 35mm"
« Reply #58 on: March 09, 2015, 01:49:03 pm »

... he discussions on the RG forums were far more interesting...

10 years or so ago most discussions on most forums were far more interesting. There is really nothing new to discuss about digital anymore, other than to rehash  tired, old debates like 35mm vs. medium format, CMOS vs. CCD, Leica vs. the rest, blah, blah, blah.

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Thank you adding "Excluding 35mm"
« Reply #59 on: March 09, 2015, 03:31:46 pm »

Hi,

I sort of share your view. I have been shooting a lot with MFD since June 2013 i parallel with full frame 135 and APS-C. I have made many images with the P45+ I really like, but on my recent trips to the Dolomites I found that the MFD images were a bit boring.

By and large, I have been more happy with the P45+ image I have shot around here where I live:

This was my first "real world image" with the P45+ and I like it very much:


This is another nice image from here around:


On the other hand this P45+ image has a lot of good ingredients but no life:


Why this spontanious shot with the DSLR is much more livid:


This one was DSLR:


While this was P45+:


This night shot on P45+ trashed a DSLR image I was taking at the same time.


This one was shot with a fisheye lens on APS-C. Actually an APS-C lens on a full frame DSLR.


P45+


DSLR


Really, I am happy to use all three system. I take the APS-C (Alpha 77) on street walks, the full frame Sony Alpha 99 is my all around workhorse, and I like shooting with the P45+ as it suits my shooting style.

Best regards
Erik

People should worry about their quality label and not the camera they use.
I'm very hard on myself to get the best I can, first of all aesthetically and second technically.
I'd rather use a DSLR and make good statement than having a MF and don't be able to make a powerful image!
I even see very good technical images here with very little soul.


« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 03:37:24 pm by ErikKaffehr »
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