Topic: Strobe units (Read 5522 times)

wmchauncey · « **on:** March 02, 2015, 07:27:15 pm »

Unless you steer me in a different direction, I'm 90% certain that I want an indoor, DC, strobe unit to freeze my moving tabletop images...
smoke, water droplets, and hummingbirds and whatnot. On camera flash units do not excite me...budget, with wireless trigger, is around $150 if possible.
Is this doable/possible in my price range? Any suggestions or am I blowing smoke?

crabby · « **Reply #1 on:** March 02, 2015, 09:43:56 pm »

Can you even buy wireless triggers for under $150? An on camera flash unit or two (you can take them off the camera) will be the lowest budget DC strobe for the items you described.

Bart_van_der_Wolf · « **Reply #2 on:** March 03, 2015, 06:31:11 am »

Quote from: wmchauncey on March 02, 2015, 07:27:15 pm

Unless you steer me in a different direction, I'm 90% certain that I want an indoor, DC, strobe unit to freeze my moving tabletop images...
smoke, water droplets, and hummingbirds and whatnot. On camera flash units do not excite me...budget, with wireless trigger, is around $150 if possible.

Hi,

I'd look into light modifiers first. Larger strobes often have longer exposure times than useful for freezing action.

When your work is close-up and macro, diffusion panels and transparent diffusers will often do the job just fine.

Quote

Is this doable/possible in my price range? Any suggestions or am I blowing smoke?

The budget seems too small to do it well ...

Cheers,
Bart

wmchauncey · « **Reply #3 on:** March 03, 2015, 08:20:01 am »

If I was able to boost my budget to around $300...would that make a difference.
Freezing motion is a priority.

AlterEgo · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2015, 09:01:24 am »

Quote from: wmchauncey on March 03, 2015, 08:20:01 am

If I was able to boost my budget to around $300...would that make a difference.
Freezing motion is a priority.

hit 2 review sites and browse chinese models there = http://www.lightingrumours.com and http://flashhavoc.com/

NancyP · « **Reply #5 on:** March 03, 2015, 09:58:59 am »

Relatively high power manual speedlight flash at lowest possible output (1/128 or 1/256) for shortest duration light, with very dark studio and as high ISO as needed. A manual Yongnuo or other brand Chinese manual flash should be $70.00 to $80.00. A simple pair of Chinese transmitter/transceivers, one for the camera, one for the flash, for off-camera flash, will set you back about $30.00 to $40.00.

Specialized triggers are another issue altogether. Commercial triggers are well above your price range, even if you should choose the cheapest possible flash (I think there are $50.00 flashes out there). If you are good with electronics, and have various scraps from old projects laying around, a spare Arduino , and some time, you might be able to build your own (fill in the blank)-sensitive trigger. This is well beyond my current expertise, but there have to be some schematics out there posted by enthusiasts.

pflower · « **Reply #6 on:** March 03, 2015, 02:54:39 pm »

I would second the suggestion to look at chinese strobes. I haven't tried freezing splashes etc. but there is a tutorial on Photogiy (sp?) about this using speedlites. I bought a couple of Yongnuo 560IIs plus their own brand wireless triggers. The flashes have their own receiver (so you only need the transmitter) and as far as I can tell so far have worked flawlessly with pretty much every camera I have tried them on (Sony, Sigma, Nikon, Panasonic m/43s). Mind you I haven't pushed them very hard and if my bank balance depended upon the reliability of my flash set up I might go elsewhere but at a significantly higher cost. But as a starting point (and at your price point) these are worth looking into.

Dshelly · « **Reply #7 on:** March 03, 2015, 10:25:43 pm »

Your best bet is probably an Einstein moonlight from Paul Buff. The price is a little higher than you'd prefer, but it's modestly priced for the features it provides and will allow you to freeze action. The Einstein tends to retain it's value, but you may be able to pick a used one up on ebay.

Dustbak · « **Reply #8 on:** March 04, 2015, 05:35:28 am »

You mention on camera units are not wanted. Not sure what you exactly mean with that? However the flashlights made by the likes of Nikon often have ridiculous duration. The Nikon SB900 is somewhere in the 1/40.000th at the lowest powersetting. If freezing at a low budget is what you are after you might want to take a second look at flashlights...

wmchauncey · « **Reply #9 on:** March 04, 2015, 07:45:17 am »

Want to thank you guys for your patience with me. I wanted a unit that would allow both flash and continuous lighting.
Anyway, I called the folks at BHPhoto and explained my wants and budget. They explained that what I want is over budget but...
this might/maybe work for me http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/501613-REG/Impact_VSD_300_VSD300_Digital_Monolight.html

Now all I gotta do is figure out how to work with it.

NancyP · « **Reply #10 on:** March 04, 2015, 11:04:37 am »

The problem with the Impact is that it has 1/1800 sec as fastest flash duration. Great, if this is fast enough for you. Less great, if you need very high speed flash. The advantage of the Impact is that it has far more power than an ordinary speedlight (and this is true of every strobe unit that runs off AC). For indoors studio I see no reason not to use AC, at least if you have sufficient wattage supported by your wiring - it's in the wall already. Speedlight users often have to group several speedlights to get enough output.

I think you need to read up about flash and how to use it, and read up about freezing drops, smoke, etc, to see what the set-up should be. There's a lot of free reading on the web. Try the www.strobist.com for an intro to flash, modifiers, etc. The Strobist site also has a terrific set of links to DIY flash gear: http://strobist.blogspot.com/2013/11/50-diy-projects-for-lighting.html

At a guess, at close-up or macro range you would need a darkened room with the wall far away from your subject, or with a simple background cloth/paper placed far enough from your subject so background is sufficiently out of focus (black velvet-ish if wanting completely dark background). Shutter speed would be at or under whatever your camera's sync speed is - that's why you want the darkened room. You will need to focus the light from your flash with a "snoot" (tube attached to end of flash - make one from paper or foil or matte-black "cinefoil"), so the flash doesn't light everything, just the subject.

The joy of digital in situations where you need to fine tune a setup is that you can experiment "for free".

Some Guy · « **Reply #11 on:** March 04, 2015, 11:40:00 am »

I think Nancy P above has the right idea on going with a Yongnuo speedlight if you want to save a lot money rather than going for some $1,400 Quantum or ProPhoto B1 or B2 for $2K.

You could get a hot shoe coiled PC cord for what you want and not bother with the wireless controls, setup menus and sequencing, and their batteries. I have a coiled cord on my flash bracket and it actually works easier than the radio trippers and maintains all the TTL and sundry commands off the camera without 18 pages of setup stuff for the wireless units (I own three different wireless radios and they all are fidgety, and the Nikon CLS (infrared light) system is often inoperative in bright sunlight too.)

SG

AFairley · « **Reply #12 on:** March 04, 2015, 11:40:51 am »

DP review has a note about a high speed LED "strobe" panel for the cost of a shoe mount flash on its front page right now. Don't know how near it is to actuality.

Michael N. Meyer · « **Reply #13 on:** March 05, 2015, 04:51:33 pm »

You might consider Godox v850 or its various rebranded siblings. I've been using a Neewer branded unit for a couple of months and find the lithium battery amazing. The specs for its flash duration are 1/300 at full power to 1/20000 at it's lowest setting. It's quite the bargain at ~$100--and that includes the battery/charger. It'd be another $70 or so for a matching remote trigger. Adorama has them in stock.

This link might also be of interest to some: http://www.gock.net/2012/01/flash-durations-small-strobes/.

wmchauncey · « **Reply #14 on:** March 05, 2015, 07:57:23 pm »

Gonna give this thing http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Monolight.html overnight to acclimate to warm temperature.
Have one question to start with...I shoot tethered in manual mode...how would
I set my exposure for flash use, will the modeling light suffice, i.e., is it as bright as a flash would be?

Dshelly · « **Reply #15 on:** March 05, 2015, 09:59:06 pm »

You will set your shutter speed based upon the camera you're using and whether or not you want to let in some ambient light, in addition to the light coming from your moonlight. For example, the Canon 5D3 has a maximum synch speed of 1/200. I generally shoot at 1/125. However, if there's some warmer or colder light in the b.g. you can drag shutter to a lower synch speed to pick up some of the ambient that.

It's best to use a meter to determine your aperture. So if you want to shoot at f8, you set the synch speed on your meter, say 1/160 and you pop the meter, which is facing toward the light at the distance your subject will be. The meter reading will give you your f-stop based upon the current power of the light. You can then dial up or down the power until you reach your preferred f-stop. I hope this makes sense.

Also, it helps to have a meter that has a built-in pocket wizard so that you can meter the light wirelessly.

wmchauncey · « **Reply #16 on:** March 06, 2015, 11:46:57 am »

TaDa, first shots and am already confused...shot tethered using my handy dandy x-rite gizmo.
f/13, ISO 100

Strobe set to maximum modeling light mode, the bulb is listed for 100W. 1st image
Proper exposure required 4.0 seconds. WB is 2850, 0
But I see more saturation in this image...
Obliviously it's not using all 100 W in modeling mode...right?

Replaced strobe with one of my LED 100W equivalent clamp on lights in same position. 2nd image
Proper exposure required 0.8 seconds. WB 2750, 0

Dshelly · « **Reply #17 on:** March 06, 2015, 02:55:11 pm »

When your strobe flashes it overpowers the modeling light to the point that it has no effect on the exposure. The modeling light is simply there to show you the light's effect on your subject. You can also use just the modeling light and expose for that without firing off the strobe's flash.

You haven't noted how you've come to meter the strobe's exposure value. Are you using a light meter?

SZRitter · « **Reply #18 on:** March 06, 2015, 03:21:24 pm »

Most of the time, your shutter speed should be set to the flash sync speed for your camera (i.e. about 1/250). A strobe's actual flash duration is shorter than this (and if you do anything high speed, this is a number you need to look at), but using the sync speed will allow the flash to go off while the shutter is open. Using a faster shutter speed can result in no exposure or a partial exposure. Longer shutter speeds will get the flash plus ambient light.

Unless you have a light system that will talk with the camera (i.e. a Nikon and a bunch of their speedlights), your camera's meter won't do jack for proper exposure. You can get it a few ways, one is calculating it manually based off of guide number, light distance and all that jazz. I don't know all of the formula, so I am not even going to try and get it for you. The second is to use a dedicated light meter. Really handy, does a great job, and all around an excellent tool to have. Wouldn't be surprised if you can find one that does flash readings for under $100 at KEH or eBay. The third, since you are shooting digital, will be to chimp and just take photos until you get there. Much longer than just using a meter, but still possible.

How is your light being triggered from the camera? If you did a 4s exposure, and it came out like that, I am pretty sure the strobe just never went off.

Also, a note on adjusting exposure: you will leave shutter speed and ISO (most likely) static, instead adjust the exposure by aperture or flash intensity. Flash intensity can be controlled by lowering the power of the flash, or moving it further away.

wmchauncey · « **Reply #19 on:** March 06, 2015, 05:11:16 pm »

The strobe was not set to fire...I made the assumption that the 100W bulb actually put out 100W at full power.

Author Topic: Strobe units (Read 5522 times)