Epson Ink

[lighthunter]

Hi all
Why 70ml of Epson Dye ink for L1800 cost 22USD and 80ml of Epson ink for 3880 cost 66 USD ? 3x!!!

[Ken Doo]

Dye versus Pigment inks.

Liquid gold.  It's a great business model----for Epson.

 

P.s.  It gets better for the wide format pro printers---49**, 79**, 99**.  Go big or go home. 

[Paul Roark]

I suspect it's the same ink as the Epson SureLab D3000's UltraChrome C6, which is probably the same as Claria, which appears to be the same as Noritsu.  I buy the Noritsu inks and dilute for an LK and the Lc and Lm positions of my printers.  See for example http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4000-Noritsu-2K.pdf .  You'd be surprised how much you can save doing your own dilutions.  I'm a big fan of this Epson (possibly technology from Fujifilm) dye.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[Some Guy]

Fwiw, I have one of those small Epson Charm P-225 printers with a battery for events.  Only 4x6 on Epson's own Matte or Glossy since the paper is supplied with the ink cart ($$$).

Epson claims 125 years for longevity with it which I thought was a major typo or wishful thinking.  I thought it had used pigment ink (Black, Magenta, Cyan, Yellow) to make that claim, but turns it is dye ink.  Guess that Claria stuff (dye) really does last.

For fun, I printed a test image out of it and stuck in outdoors in the sun for two weeks with half covered with black posterboard.  Also did it with a refillable dye ink out of a Canon and another refillable dye Epson.  Both of those began fading faster, maybe only 3 days before fading set in.

I got more respect for the Epson "Whatever it is ink" in the little Charm.  I've read somewhere that their newest HDR inks are even better than the K3 Vivid.  Don't know if they are dye or pigment.

SG

[Farmer]

UC C6 isn't the same as Claria.

The ink for the L1800 is in a bottle, not a cartridge, and it's designed for a very different machine (one with large, refillable tanks) and it's dye, not pigment.

[MHMG]

UC C6 isn't the same as Claria.

The ink for the L1800 is in a bottle, not a cartridge, and it's designed for a very different machine (one with large, refillable tanks) and it's dye, not pigment.

More than likely it is the same as Claria or Claria's successor (there's a newer PK black and photo gray-when-dilluted ink now in the product pipeline and Canon already has it available in the Pro-100. Epson will catch up to the Canon Pro-100's configuration sooner or later). Neither Epson nor Canon synthesize dyes, AFAIK. They turn to one or more expert formulators, more than likely Fujifilm which owns a subsidiary company that specializes in making stable, colorful synthetic dyes. Once a new dye gets vetted with superior properties for inkjet printing, it gets used in a wide variety of machines, but it also gets "disguised" by different brand names and configurations. That keeps the third party vendors guessing as to how to make "equivalent" ink sets. And none of the third party dye providers are even close to this level of light fastness since they are routinely just sourcing commonly available traditional dye stuffs to make their "equivalent" inks.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

[Paul Roark]

Regarding whether UltraChrome D6 is the same as the Claria/Noritsu dyes, you might be interested in the Lab L, A and B comparisons I made, shown on the last page of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/UltraChrome-D6-Noritsu-blacks-compared.pdf .  Epson D6 MSDS had claimed the D6 K was carbon.  I challenged them on that.  They sent me a corrected MSDS.  (Whether they changed what they published to others is questionable.)  A carbon pigment K with the Claria/Noritsu dye characteristics would be quite remarkable (and probably impossible).

Mark, it's great to hear a new K and LK are in the works.  That has been a weak point.  I will eagerly await its being made available in a large cart.   Do you think there is currently a Canon version that is available and compatible?  If it's in large carts, moving in that direction might be of interest.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[Ernst Dinkla]

http://www.fujifilm.eu/fileadmin/products/Imaging_Colorants/Data_Sheets/Dyes_Sep._2011/Pro-Jet_Black_CBA.PDF
http://www.fujifilmusa.com/shared/bin/Pro-Jet_Black_CBA.PDF

This one has been around since at least 2011. Minimum order 20kg base to make 100 liter ink as I understand it.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

[John Nollendorfs]

The main thing to remember about dye inks, is that their life is dependent on the paper you print them on--not nearly as cut and dry as pigments. Also, high humidity conditions (above 40%) will adversely affect print life.

Dye compatibility is a very important factor in determining the life of a "dye set". Dye inks interact with one another, which is why the substrate you print them on is very important factor.  The "swellable polymer" ink receptor coatings tend to isolate one dye from another (like in the layers of color film). But under humid conditions, dyes tend to migrate, even in polymer coatings, causing their life expectancy to drop.

The big "plus" with dyes in ink jet printing, is that they don't leave nearly the residue on printers, (less clogging tendency) and the inks will be much less prone to settling, as is the case with pigments.