Thicker Lustre Papers?

[Erland]

Hi!

Since my Epson 1400 uses Dye inks, the different paperchoices  are somewhat limited.
Everytime I have tried a sample pack now, Lustre paper is my first choice, until I pick it up since it is so flimsy.

Any recommendations on a thicker lustre paper, or at least stiffer?

[howardm]

which/what papers have you already deemed 'too flimsy/thin' ?

[Erland]

Epson Premium Lustre and Bonjet Lustre /semi gloss.

[howardm]

Moab Lasal might be worth your consideration.  It's heavier than most.

[Phil Indeblanc]

I'm sure there are thicker , but the HP Premium Photo Satin is very thick, and has a great feel/finish........11.5mil 286g/m2
Professional Satin is also thick, but not as nice.

[Erland]

The ones I've tried are 250-260gr/m2. But maybe the mil are more important?
I love the feeling of holding a sheet of Canson Baryta and such.

[MHMG]

I love the feeling of holding a sheet of Canson Baryta and such.

Then give it a try (and perhaps others like HN Photo Rag Pearl, HN Photo Rag Satin, Canson Platine, etc) in your printer. Your printer uses the Epson Claria dye set, and this chemically synthesized dye set will hold up to light fade resistance reasonably well on a wider variety of media compared to "natural" dye stuffs that are typically very fugitive on any media. Just make sure you've have de-curled any forward-facing curl on these fine art media so that you don't get head strikes. Your printer has no vacuum hold-down, so forward curl tendencies on some of these fine art media compared to RC media will be a relevant issue.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

[TSJ1927]

If you are in or near to the USA, you may want to look at Lexjet's Esatin 300.  This RC paper is indistinguishable from Canon's old Heavyweight Satin 300. Here's a description from their website:

LexJet's next-generation Sunset Photo eSatin 300g is a premium-quality, resin-coated inkjet photo paper that professional photographers rave about. They like it because the prints they deliver to their customers feel noticeably thicker, heavier, and more durable than mass-market inkjet photo papers; the latest generation is even thicker than before at 11.5 mil. The slightly textured, satin (or luster) surface is like the E-surface papers that were popular in darkroom printing. The print surface doesn’t show fingerprints or reflect glare like glossy papers. This paper’s excellent ink retention properties produce an exceptionally large color gamut for bright, realistically saturated colors and accurate skin tones. Plus, the latest version has an even wider color gamut and an improved white point for greater contrast.

LexJet Sunset Photo eSatin 300g can be used on many pigment and dye ink printers from Canon, Epson, and HP, and is engineered for the latest inksets, including Canon Lucia, Epson UltraChrome K3 HDR and HP Vivera.

Color profiles are available for many models.

All rolls require a 3-in. spindle or core adapter.

[Iluvmycam]

(nsfw)

http://encyclopediainkjet.tumblr.com/

[Erland]

I live in Sweden. It's quite a small market on different lustre papers here, and overall just a small market. I've gotten to try four different papers recently buy a reseller of different brands. They were Bonjet papers: Photo lustre, Fibre (Exact the same as Cansons Baryta), a Matt Etching (Similar to a Hahnemühle German Etching paper) and a Black&White (reminds me of a baryta paper with a deeper coating).
From the above, the Baryta paper was the worst. My Black ink goes blue and the overall image is just terrible. The Matt paper actually worked pretty well for both color and b&w. However the Black&White was amazing at just B&W images, not so much on colors.
The Lustre paper was great on both color and B&W, and thus I think going for a Lustre paper is suitable since I am just printing for myself and some of my friends.
Though I like stiffer and thicker papers, and hence my original question about thicker papers. I wish Baryta papers worked, I really like the finish and the feeling in my hands.
Next week I will try out a new Paper from Bonjet, a thicker Lustre paper at around 300gsm.

[Phil Indeblanc]

The Premium HP Satin is made in Switzerland, maybe you can take a little vacation :-)

[Ernst Dinkla]

There are more than 20 varieties of thick papers in the Satin/Lustre RC map of SpectrumViz, you can at least see which are probably identical in their composition but the texture remains an unsure factor even when described as Lustre or Satin by the manufacturer.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

[hugowolf]

... From the above, the Baryta paper was the worst. My Black ink goes blue and the overall image is just terrible. ...

If it is the same as Canson Baryta Photographique, then you shouldn't have this problem. What profile were you using?

Brian A

[Erland]

I printed the Baryta with both Canson own baryta and their platine. Also tried my Photo lustre profile I've made myself.
Everywhere on the internet Baryta papers and Dye inks are not a recommended combination.

[MHMG]

What evidence supports the "not recommended" answer?  Epson Claria and Canon Chromalife 100+ dye sets are not like inkjet dyes sold several years ago. The older sets faded very quickly on any media except swellable polymer papers, and those papers are to my knowledge no longer on the market because they had other serious issues.  if earlier generation dye-based longevity performance is the basis for the "not recommended" comments by the third party media manufacturers then I suspect they are just covering their a$*@#.  Fair enough, but Canon actually encourages the use of those third party fine art print media in its dye-based Pro-100 printer which uses the Chromalife 100+ dye set, so there seems to be a discrepancy of opinion.

I haven't done any extensive testing of dye based systems on non OEM and non RC media either, so I can't say with certainty how full color sets would do on the Baryta papers, but I have tested Claria "black only (PK ink)" full tone scale samples printed on Canson Baryta Photographique head-to-head with the same full tone scale PK-only images printed on Epson OEM Premium Glossy and the outcome was close enough that I'd have no problem recommending either paper as a suitable choice. I'm not saying that dyes will match pigments in longevity on Baryta papers or any other papers for that matter. I'm just saying that I see no evidence to suggest the newer synthetic dyes hold up much better on "recommended" OEM RC media compared to third party Baryta "fine art" and other non RC media. If anything the use of a protective spray is the bigger issue concerning longevity ratings when using dye based inkjet systems, but that said, initial image quality compatibility with those longevity-enhancing sprays can also be problematic. As for initial image quality, one just has to try a paper to figure that out, and custom profiling may be necessary, but I have seen beautiful dye-based prints made on non RC fine art media.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

[dwswager]

Hi!

Since my Epson 1400 uses Dye inks, the different paperchoices  are somewhat limited.
Everytime I have tried a sample pack now, Lustre paper is my first choice, until I pick it up since it is so flimsy.

Any recommendations on a thicker lustre paper, or at least stiffer?

As you say, thick and rigid are 2 different things.  The Epson Luster 260 is a decent weight, but it is really flimsy in the hand compared to say Exhibition Fiber or Hot/Cold press matte papers.

Maybe Hahnemühle Photo Luster 290 or  Photo Pearl 310.   Maybe Canson® Infinity Photo Lustre Premium Resin Coated 310gsm.  Hard to beat the Epson Luster on (price/quality) value though!

[RHPS]

What evidence supports the "not recommended" answer?

I don't know about baryta papers generally, but the color gamut of the Canon Pro100 on Harman Gloss Baryta is much smaller than on a typical RC paper. Now, it may be that Harman have made a real mess of their profiles, but the gamut volume for the Pro100 is 661178 whereas for the the Epson Pro3880 it's 868205. For an RC paper there is very little difference between the two printers, with the Pro100 having a slightly wider gamut if anything. Does this suggest there is some inherent limitation of dyes on baryta papers?

[MHMG]

Does this suggest there is some inherent limitation of dyes on baryta papers?

I'm not sure about that, however, the baryta is typically incorporated in a subbing layer, so I don't see why one couldn't get vivid color from dyes on a baryta type inkjet paper given that the top coat ink receptor layer is going to be classic microporous alumina-silica PVA-PVB binder type chemistry. I get very beautiful prints on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Pearl using the Canon Pro-100.  Although HN Photo Rag Pearl is not a "baryta" paper, it is a "traditional fiber" paper in that it is has no PE subbing layers, and it exhibits a beautiful luster type finish on a 100% cotton fiber base sheet.

I do have some HN Photo Rag Baryta in house, but HN Photo Rag Pearl is my preferred paper. I will make a print on the photo rag baryta with the Canon Pro-100 and report back soon as to initial image quality.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com