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Author Topic: audiophiles gone crazy (again)  (Read 28963 times)

BJL

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audiophiles gone crazy (again)
« on: February 11, 2015, 07:45:42 pm »

More of what gives legitimate lovers of fine audio reproduction a bad name:
http://arstechnica.com/staff/2015/02/to-the-audiophile-this-10000-ethernet-cable-apparently-makes-sense/

(EDIT; typo corrected.)
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 01:58:40 pm by BJL »
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amolitor

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Re: audiophiles gone crazy (again)
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2015, 12:46:12 am »

Just because you can hear (or see, ahem) a difference doesn't mean it's there.
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kers

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Re: audiophiles gone crazy (again)
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2015, 05:10:27 am »

I find it a strange that while digital photography and video ( image) is getting better and better ; we still can only buy MP3 online....

Sound quality is considered less important or it must be the subwoofersystem ;) or the Beats headphones

I am with Neil Young in that respect.

It is silly to spend a lot of money on digital cables, but if you spend it on a sound system, especially speakers, you will notice it right away...
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Pieter Kers
www.beeld.nu/la

AreBee

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Re: audiophiles gone crazy (again)
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2015, 05:27:50 am »

Tests conducted on humans clearly demonstrate that although something may not exist in reality, it can exist as part of our reality.

Example 1: Identical wine is placed in several wine bottles which range in cost from cheap to expensive. The price tag for each bottle is deliberately left visible.

The results of the test, during which the subjects' brain activity was monitored, clearly indicate that not only did the subjects think the (same) wine tasted better the more expensive the bottle, but that actually it did taste better - the brain induced a more pleasurable experience when it extrapolated from the information available to it that the wine in a more expensive bottle should taste better than the (same) wine in a less expensive bottle.

Example 2: Refer to the attached image.

The colour of square A and B is identical.
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WannabeTilt

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Re: audiophiles gone crazy (again)
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2015, 05:51:53 am »

I find it a strange that while digital photography and video ( image) is getting better and better ; we still can only buy MP3 online....

Well, we can also buy lots of losslessly compressed audio files online - I only buy FLAC, and I still can't keep up with everything I'm interested in.

Availability does on depend where you live, I grant you. Here in the UK, until recently there were few online outlets selling a large inventory in FLAC (Chandos, Hyperion, Presto Classical). But not long ago the French etailer Qobuz opened a UK site and since then, despite some remaining cross-border nonsense (e.g. still can't buy many recordings of contemporary French music in FLAC format, though they're for sale on Amazon UK in mp3 format), I've been a happy bunny.

Best wishes,

Nick
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Petrus

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Re: audiophiles gone crazy (again)
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2015, 06:11:47 am »

WHAT??? Are you saying you are not using $5000 USB cables and $8000 card readers to transfer your picture files to the computer??? If you have $20000 invested in photo gear, at least 40% of it should be in cables! What good does it do if the carefully exposed 50 MPix image gets muddied up in the transfer?

(I confess, I have been kicked out half dozen times from a certain SACD site because I have questioned some "truths" circulating there…)
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WannabeTilt

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Re: audiophiles gone crazy (again)
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2015, 07:40:35 am »

WHAT??? Are you saying you are not using $5000 USB cables and $8000 card readers to transfer your picture files to the computer??? If you have $20000 invested in photo gear, at least 40% of it should be in cables! What good does it do if the carefully exposed 50 MPix image gets muddied up in the transfer?

 :D
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hjulenissen

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Re: audiophiles gone crazy (again)
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2015, 07:54:34 am »

WHAT??? Are you saying you are not using $5000 USB cables and $8000 card readers to transfer your picture files to the computer??? If you have $20000 invested in photo gear, at least 40% of it should be in cables! What good does it do if the carefully exposed 50 MPix image gets muddied up in the transfer?

(I confess, I have been kicked out half dozen times from a certain SACD site because I have questioned some "truths" circulating there…)
Alternatively:
My CCD camera produce certain silky transitions that no CMOS camera will ever achieve. Oh, and this cannot be measured in any way, nor can it it be seen in a side-by-side, but it is there. Trust me.

I think that we humans are inherently prone to superstition. Even the most "scientifically minded" make about a gazillion choices every day based on data we cannot trust and knowledge that we don't have. That is part of being human, and I like being human.

-h
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 07:56:41 am by hjulenissen »
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PeterAit

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Re: audiophiles gone crazy (again)
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2015, 08:17:39 am »

In my brief foray into "audiophilia," many years ago, I fell for claims that by coloring the edges of your CDs green, with a special magic marker, you would get better sound quality. I still come across a green-edged CD in my collection now and then, and can only shake my head.

It's telling that audiophiles NEVER are willing to submit to blind listening tests.
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AreBee

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Re: audiophiles gone crazy (again)
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2015, 08:45:54 am »

Peter,

Quote
It's telling that audiophiles NEVER are willing to submit to blind listening tests.

http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2007/10/01/james-randi-calls-ou.html

To date nobody has won. Says it all.
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Isaac

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Re: audiophiles gone crazy (again)
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2015, 11:57:37 am »

Tests conducted on humans clearly demonstrate that although something may not exist in reality, it can exist as part of our reality.

Delusion and illusion.
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hjulenissen

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Re: audiophiles gone crazy (again)
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2015, 12:21:32 pm »

I find it a strange that while digital photography and video ( image) is getting better and better ; we still can only buy MP3 online....
I find it even stranger that todays delivery formats (including mp3) are perhaps the best we ever had, yet musicians and sound engineers insists on filling those files with clipped and distorted content in the hunt for ever more loudness.

Imagine landscape photographers with 14-stop DR cameras and 200:1 CR prints always limiting themselves to sRGB values from [200...255]

-h
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Petrus

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Re: audiophiles gone crazy (again)
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2015, 12:40:24 pm »

The problem with audio is that the final product is a fleeting moment which really can not be captured and reliably compared with another similar listening event. So this begets $5000 power cords and $10000 speaker cables (and now USB and Ethernet cables also). With video the situation is not as bad (but not immune), as two screens can be compared side to side. With photography we can always compare two files pixel to pixel to see if they are identical. So the bottom falls out of all cable madness, thank Gods.
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Torbjörn Tapani

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Re:
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2015, 12:55:04 pm »

Most people listen to music in the car, at work or working out. Music has to be loud.
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AreBee

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Re:
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2015, 12:59:06 pm »

Torbjörn,

Quote
Music has to be loud.

Increase the volume.
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hjulenissen

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Re:
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2015, 01:05:42 pm »

Increase the volume.
Or, employ some kind of dynamic compression in the playback device when it is needed (sort of like the midnight mode found in some surround receivers).

The idea is that the distributed content should be mastered to sound "as good as possible". Those who cannot play it back in ideal conditions should take appropriate actions at their end.

-h
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hjulenissen

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Re: audiophiles gone crazy (again)
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2015, 01:10:33 pm »

No need to imagine, that IS what we do At least in the final stage, given that 99.99% of all photographs taken currently end up on the internet, tablets, and phones. The remaining minuscule percentage ends up in prints printed by labs that insist of sRGB files, and only a microscopic percentage ends up printed in something better than sRGB.
I think it is still worse in the audio world. What they are doing is (occasionally) like using the best large-format Epson printer there is for large prints, along with a MFDB and highly skilled photoshopping. But just before printing, they bump up the shadows to "white" and the highlights to "super white". The natural dynamics of musics are sacrificed in order to make the (in our analogy) image scream "buy me" from the wall, making it super-blistering bright in the idea that other images hanging next to it will appear dark and muddy.

To some degree, this might be happening in the image world as well, although in slightly different ways than sacrificing DR. E.g. bumping saturation and sharpening  to levels that make it "wow" but annoying to the "photography elite". I'd like to think that the kind photographers we are talking are in control over their end-product and do editing in order to satisfy artistic goals (I am sure that there are kinds of photography where an artistic director or customer is hanging over your back forcing you to do things that makes you want to poke your eyes out).

-h
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 01:13:06 pm by hjulenissen »
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spidermike

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Re: audiophiles gone crazy (again)
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2015, 11:43:13 am »

Tests conducted on humans clearly demonstrate that although something may not exist in reality, it can exist as part of our reality.

Example 1: Identical wine is placed in several wine bottles which range in cost from cheap to expensive. The price tag for each bottle is deliberately left visible.

The results of the test, during which the subjects' brain activity was monitored, clearly indicate that not only did the subjects think the (same) wine tasted better the more expensive the bottle, but that actually it did taste better - the brain induced a more pleasurable experience when it extrapolated from the information available to it that the wine in a more expensive bottle should taste better than the (same) wine in a less expensive bottle.



The difference is that wine lovers know this happens and reluctantly accept it as part of the hobby - the more pretentious may not like being caught out a dinner party and their affectation shown up but they do accept the fallibility of the human senses.
Similarly for the art world fooled by paintings daubed by chimps.

But you dare suggest to the 'golden-eared' that their 20k improvement is all down to psychology (let alone suggest they need to do a blind listening test!!) and you watch the fireworks follow. Subjectivity does not exist in their audio world.
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: audiophiles gone crazy (again)
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2015, 01:01:34 pm »

Crazy? NO! That's not crazy! THIS is crazy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG3Uefa8t9U

...crazy good, realistic three dimensional listening on my $80 Sony MDR V6 headphones off my 2010 MacMini.

I just don't have to pay the big bucks for that guy's setup and let the exceptional mic on his video camera do the rest.

My 1972 Sansui amp, 1992 Panasonic CD player and 1985 Norman Lab speakers, all combined costing under $400, comes close.
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spidermike

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Re: audiophiles gone crazy (again)
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2015, 03:07:43 pm »

So you have what is (I assume) a great system recorded with a portable video recorder, downsampled for posting on youttube and probably played back through a mediocre set of electronics (a pair of £53 headphones for the last poster) and people praising how wonderful it is, even talking about a 'scoop out' at a certain frequency.
Shows how appearances can affect it all.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 03:09:15 pm by spidermike »
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