Raw & Post Processing, Printing > Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks

manual crank laminator

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mstevensphoto:
hey folks,
   I don't do much mounting so I got myself a manual crank laminator. so far it's been a chore. I know consistent speed is paramount. the thing I keep finding is that I get roller dents randomly in my gator. if I use less pressure the image doesn't mount (currently using optica one and miracle muck). before I buy a very expensive roll of cold laminate film I'm wondering if any of you think it can actually be done with my current setup? using double sided laminate I should be able to roll on the adhesive and then roll on the image, but am I likely to be able to get it even and also have enough pressure to keep it stuck?
thanks

Garnick:

--- Quote from: mstevensphoto on February 05, 2015, 12:43:20 pm ---hey folks,
   I don't do much mounting so I got myself a manual crank laminator. so far it's been a chore. I know consistent speed is paramount. the thing I keep finding is that I get roller dents randomly in my gator. if I use less pressure the image doesn't mount (currently using optica one and miracle muck). before I buy a very expensive roll of cold laminate film I'm wondering if any of you think it can actually be done with my current setup? using double sided laminate I should be able to roll on the adhesive and then roll on the image, but am I likely to be able to get it even and also have enough pressure to keep it stuck?
thanks


--- End quote ---

For many years I used a crank laminator, but not a cheap one.  I bought it from Interlam and it was very well built and solid.  About ten years ago I called the company to order more laminate and the sales fellow mentioned that they had a new motor driven model from Interlam that someone had ordered and didn't pick up.  When I went to pick up the laminate I looked at the machine and was very impressed, so I purchased it.  I've never had any problems with it and use it a lot.  However, I did keep the crank machine in case there was ever a problem with the motor.  Then the crank model would fill in while the motor was being fixed.  Fortunately I've never had to put the crank model back in service, but I know it would still do the job.  If you have a good crank model it will serve you very well, although the motor driven model is somewhat more convenient.  Pressure is not really a critical issue.  Pressure sensitive adhesives and laminates do not require a great deal of pressure and they should work very well.  The adhesive is rolled on and then the release paper is removed as you begin to mount the print.  One thing to keep in mind is that canvas does not work well with pressure sensitive adhesives.  It will stick for a while and then you'll notice bubbles where the adhesive has released.  Thermal adhesives work well for canvas, or the "miracle much"(as I understand).  I get my adhesive and laminate from Drytac.

Hope this helps, Gary.    

bill t.:
This old German guy is fun to watch.  He's the Michael Jordan of laminating.  He's makes it look about 10 times easier than it is, because he's got seriously good technique.

There are several of these videos, watch them all and you will truly learn something about laminating.

This is the #2 video, start here.  #1 was a marketing afterthought.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfiltdh77A0

PS, you're either using too much pressure, or you rollers excessively non-concentric.  One of those videos shows you how to set the pressure.

A good test not shown in the videos is to run a 12 x 40 piece of gator through either side of the machine close to the sides of the rollers, and slightly adjust the pressure at that side until the gator goes straight through with no sideways movement at both sides of the roller, with just the right pinch.  The right pinch is rather sparing, nowhere near enough to crush Gator or even fomecore.

Another good tip is buy a 4" Scotch Jumbo Lint Roller at the supermarket, the kind with the peef-off sheets.  The Scotch version has an offset handle that works well even when the roll is small.   Press that up against the top roller and rotate the roller to remove crud that might dent the print.  Also very useful for cleaning Gator and the back of the print before laminating, and provided the roller is not too fresh and super-sticky, also for cleaning the surface of coated prints.  I also have a 12" wide peel-off dust remover with a long handle than I bought at Target which is great for cleaning big sheets of Gator prior to Muck-mounting.

If you adopt the procedure of applying the laminate film to the gator first, and then mounting the bare print on that package, you will never have to adjust your fine-tuned machine provided you are mounting only.  Get the pinch right, then leave it alone.  Put pieces of tape on the adjustment handles so you can detect any creep, and if your machine has lock nuts use those too.

I have been testing with one of those junkers and I'm actually getting excellent results, but there's no way anybody is ever going to be successful mounting 44 x watever prints without a motor and without high quality rollers.

Edit: have also seen some bad Gator lately.  For a couple months cases were coming through to 2 or 3 of the 15 sheets having 12" cuts in the center, as if the rubber padding had come off some handling machine at the factory.  Also have seen a few voids visible through the cut sides of the Gator, so I've been carefully pushing my hand down against the sheets to find any of those before mounting.  So far have only found 1 in 30 sheets, but I saw at least two voids on the edges in that amount.  The supplier has a huge cart of returned Gator sheets for cheap.  However, the last carton was perfect so maybe it was a temporary hiccup in production.

Phil Indeblanc:
that guy is super! love it. Entertaining AND informative!

Very helpful stuff Bill. I think I'll go grab a couple of those 12" and drop them off at my mounter, as he managed to screw up 4 of my prints. Sure he didn't charge, me, but who pays for my prints?
I wish I had room for a 44" (I can print 44" yet do most under 40" and I don't want to buy twice), I rather do them myself if I have to deal with messed up prints.

My mounter was saying how the Gator board has stuff on it, and he didn't see it and was surprised it was dirty like that. and I thought everyone brushes down the boards before handling it to mount? The sides/edges are razor sharp too. Something like a scuff pad or fine sandpaper could work. Then I guess use that sticky roller.  

Another thing I noticed on the black on black core boards I have been using.... The first batch I got the core is a charcoal color, and the second batch, some were again charcoal and a few of them darker closer to a black.
Do they vary, or did he use other material?

How much would a junker quality 44" manual laminator cost vs a decent quality? (besides the $pace it will take up)

bill t.:
All mounting boards come with pre-applied junk on them.  It's the industry standard.  Just wait until you get into Sintra, oh yeah!  That's why there are lint rollers, and the much more expensive blue rollers in the videos.  I think lint rollers may be preferable, they sure are more convenient.

I've got Gator mounted prints stacked up against too many walls several sheets deep, and they all look the same...from the back.  And arguably from the front.  Yes, those Gator edges are vicious!  Don't ever hand a non-sanded Gator print to another unsuspecting human being!  As you get better at making cuts with your utility knife held perfectly vertical your edges will become less deadly, but never quite harmless.

To the OP, I have been deliberately choosing relatively thin and supple media for my laminating experiments.  Relatively light weight, 15 mil Silver Rag is the best so far for that and for other reasons having to do with coating and appearance.

A definite don't-laminate recommendation is Hahn Baryta FB, which is one the most rigid and curl-prone papers I have ever seen!  The last foot of Silver Rag is less curly than the first foot of Baryta FB, coming of the rolls.  I've got a mounted 24 x 36 FB-on-Gator test going, will be keeping an eagle's eye on those edges for lifting.  Will be looking at some others soon.  I keep thinking about 10 mil RC papers, but I worry that minimal thickness would be eggshell-city.  FB is a little crushed in the highlights, BTW.

If you do need to use a very curly media put the long axis of the print along the long axis of the roll, the natural curl almost helps you through the rollers in that condition, otherwise it's a battle.  In any case it's probably best to decurl prints before laminating if only for easy handling.  Something I've heard from the pros is that running the print through in all four orientations is a good idea right after laminating, as is waiting a few hours and then doing that again.  I think David Fokos alludes to that on his site, talking about facemounting.

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