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Author Topic: I'm starting to wonder if "mirrorless" is all it's hyped up to be  (Read 42664 times)

Rand47

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Re: I'm starting to wonder if "mirrorless" is all it's hyped up to be
« Reply #60 on: February 22, 2015, 07:19:30 PM »

On a side note our producer was in NY to do a quick fitting/casting.

She's not a photographer, doesn't have any interest in leaning cameras, so I set up an em-1 with the little clip on flash, set it to ai, set up the touch screen on the back and told her to shoot it like an iphone.

The results were great and other than change batteries all she had to do was take out the card, drop them into an ipad air, edit them down and well, done.

previously we've done this same type of casting with a crew of 4, so I guess this explains how the world is changing.

IMO

BC

Yup, sure does.  And don't hear what I am saying as a denial of this, or as a "dis" to the concept of mirror-less and EVF.  It is merely a statement reflecting the reality of the current state of EVFs.  I still hate them in their current incarnation, but love (in my case) the Fuji X-T1 enough to have bought 2 of them and a small arsenal of good Fuji glass!  I just don't buy the "EVF as the greatest thing since sliced-bread" in its current state of development and bristle a bit when those who have imbibed the cool-aid pretend that they are flawless and some sort of paragon of "seeing."  They ain't - yet.

Rand
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barryfitzgerald

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Re: I'm starting to wonder if "mirrorless" is all it's hyped up to be
« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2015, 04:59:16 PM »

Quick update I've sold off one of my Fuji bodies and I'm down to just the XE-1 now.
I've no plans to invest in the system any more but I will keep a few lenses and that body plus the adapter so I can use my A mount lenses on the Fuji

Not enough "wow" for me with X mount heaps of potential but pricey lenses, no IBIS and nothing happening yet flash wise means it's not (for me) a viable switch scenario I'll keep an eye out and see what happens over time, and I will try to keep an X body around because I like the Fuji look and the company has some wonderful ideas they just don't quite have the whole thing nailed down as well as I would like

Once you've tasted IBIS going back isn't an option and when you have some of the vintage lenses I do it's both hard to part with them (if they deliver the goodies and they do for me)
At heart always a Minolta man loved their thinking and ideas and handling, I had hoped Fuji would be the next Minolta but I'll have to plug away with Sony for the time being
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JV

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Re: I'm starting to wonder if "mirrorless" is all it's hyped up to be
« Reply #62 on: March 01, 2015, 06:08:29 PM »

I will try to keep an X body around because I like the Fuji look and the company has some wonderful ideas they just don't quite have the whole thing nailed down as well as I would like

On dpreview there is an interview with Toshihisa Iida, Sales & Marketing Manager with Fuji.

He figures that it will take another 2-3 years before the DSLR has no technical advantages anymore over the DSLR.

A fairly realistic estimate I believe.

That being said, for a lot of users mirrorless is already a viable or even preferable alternative right now for a variety of reasons.

Obviously everybody's mileage may vary...
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barryfitzgerald

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Re: I'm starting to wonder if "mirrorless" is all it's hyped up to be
« Reply #63 on: March 01, 2015, 08:22:33 PM »

On dpreview there is an interview with Toshihisa Iida, Sales & Marketing Manager with Fuji.

He figures that it will take another 2-3 years before the DSLR has no technical advantages anymore over the DSLR.

A fairly realistic estimate I believe.

That being said, for a lot of users mirrorless is already a viable or even preferable alternative right now for a variety of reasons.

Obviously everybody's mileage may vary...

The interview was more open than most and I respect that, he did miss the glaring neglect of the flash system though and that is a factor for some buyers
But I think it is a mistake to assume any of the "not quite sure" points raised isn't based on a technical level be it AF or flash

The form factor isn't really suited to some users it's a simple as that really but there are others
Mirrorless brings additional problems to the table vignetting and distortion are much bigger issues due to the lens sitting so close to the sensor, even with these addressed with software for many users there are no obvious reasons to switch unless you collect some of the smaller prime lenses

It's not quite the magic bullet some makers would have folks believe.
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Martin Ranger

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Re: I'm starting to wonder if "mirrorless" is all it's hyped up to be
« Reply #64 on: March 01, 2015, 09:11:47 PM »

The interview was more open than most and I respect that, he did miss the glaring neglect of the flash system though and that is a factor for some buyers
But I think it is a mistake to assume any of the "not quite sure" points raised isn't based on a technical level be it AF or flash

The form factor isn't really suited to some users it's a simple as that really but there are others
Mirrorless brings additional problems to the table vignetting and distortion are much bigger issues due to the lens sitting so close to the sensor, even with these addressed with software for many users there are no obvious reasons to switch unless you collect some of the smaller prime lenses

It's not quite the magic bullet some makers would have folks believe.

If you need the flash system, then not having it is indeed a glaring neglect. Otherwise you don't care.
I have had no issue with vignetting and distortions, whether this is due to some software magic or great lens design I do not know, nor do I care.
The reason for me to add the Fuji to my bag was that I simply like the files it produces. The fact that I can see the image in the EVF roughly the way it looks on my computer screen is very nice, too. But then, I am not a fan of the D800 OVF to begin with. And, for me, trying to do manual focus with an OVF an exercise in frustration.

Which is simply another way of saying that mirrorless has some advantages over a tradition SLR, and traditional SLRs have some advantages over mirrorless. What will make people switch in the future is that camera companies will stop producing mirror boxes to cut cost. On-chip AF might be another reason.

I wish there was a camera that was as good as its makers claim :)
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JV

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Re: I'm starting to wonder if "mirrorless" is all it's hyped up to be
« Reply #65 on: March 01, 2015, 09:31:57 PM »

The interview was more open than most and I respect that, he did miss the glaring neglect of the flash system though and that is a factor for some buyers
But I think it is a mistake to assume any of the "not quite sure" points raised isn't based on a technical level be it AF or flash

I don't see why.  The Sony A6000 is said to have very fast AF.  Fuji pretty quickly should be able to get there as well.

And a firmware for HSS support and a Fuji HSS flash have been rumored multiple times.  I am sure it will be there soon.

For me personally, I don't use flash and the current AF is more than adequate for the subjects that I shoot.

The form factor isn't really suited to some users it's a simple as that really

The cameras are small.  It definitely might take some time to get used to if you have big hands.  

Mirrorless brings additional problems to the table vignetting and distortion are much bigger issues due to the lens sitting so close to the sensor, even with these addressed with software for many users there are no obvious reasons to switch unless you collect some of the smaller prime lenses

Vignetting and distortion has not been an issue for me with the X-Pro1/X-T1 and the lenses that I own (14, 23, 35, 56).
« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 10:12:02 PM by JV »
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rdonson

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Re: I'm starting to wonder if "mirrorless" is all it's hyped up to be
« Reply #66 on: March 04, 2015, 01:03:07 PM »

The form factor isn't really suited to some users it's a simple as that really but there are others
Mirrorless brings additional problems to the table vignetting and distortion are much bigger issues due to the lens sitting so close to the sensor, even with these addressed with software for many users there are no obvious reasons to switch unless you collect some of the smaller prime lenses

It's not quite the magic bullet some makers would have folks believe.

I don't know who the purveyors of magic bullet marketing are you're referring to but its just marketing.  Just like the ads that try to convince you that life is better if you just drink a Coke or have some Kool Aid.

You seem to be adhering to the notion of "all or nothing".  You don't have to switch from any camera system.   One can have their DSLRs and lenses *and* have a mirrorless camera and lenses.  There are no cameras of any form factor I'm aware of that are perfectly suited to everyone. 

If the current mirrorless camera systems offerings don't fit your needs that's fine.  To each his own.
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Ron

barryfitzgerald

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Re: I'm starting to wonder if "mirrorless" is all it's hyped up to be
« Reply #67 on: March 13, 2015, 12:32:48 PM »

I don't know who the purveyors of magic bullet marketing are you're referring to but its just marketing.  Just like the ads that try to convince you that life is better if you just drink a Coke or have some Kool Aid.

You seem to be adhering to the notion of "all or nothing".  You don't have to switch from any camera system.   One can have their DSLRs and lenses *and* have a mirrorless camera and lenses.  There are no cameras of any form factor I'm aware of that are perfectly suited to everyone. 

If the current mirrorless camera systems offerings don't fit your needs that's fine.  To each his own.

I see your point but I think this is the problem for ILC makers if they don't get users to switch where are the going to be years down the road?
I like having an X body, I don't feel there is any point investing in the system, but surely it's the system where the real money is?

Of course I could just keep an X body (or any other maker) and play around and use it with an adapter which I intend to, so you are right it's not all or nothing. Saying that the marketing of ILC makers is clearly aimed at switchers.
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spidermike

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Re: I'm starting to wonder if "mirrorless" is all it's hyped up to be
« Reply #68 on: March 15, 2015, 06:41:10 PM »

Saying that the marketing of ILC makers is clearly aimed at switchers.

is it? I thought it was aimed at anyone thinking of buying a camera and trying to point out that you can get superb output from a smaller package. The problem they face is that the general public still think along the lines of ´iphone for convenience´ or ´DSLR because proper cameras are big´.
People with a lot of photographic experience in general grow to accept the ´good enough for intended use´compromise and buy a MFT as a secondary camera for general carry-around....and even then it is increasingly common to read of people who do so realising the DSLR is gathering dust in the wardrobe and question why they still have it. I still prefer the ergonomics of DSLR but my MFT cameras get far more use.
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bassman51

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Re: I'm starting to wonder if "mirrorless" is all it's hyped up to be
« Reply #69 on: April 17, 2015, 09:45:52 PM »

My thoughts.

I adapted to the EVF on my Olympus cameras pretty easily, starting with the E-M5 and now with the E-M1.  The biggest negative to me was having to turn the camera on before looking into the EVF, but I adapted pretty quickly.  While I understand that some folks really enjoy looking thru an OVF rather than at an EVF, for me the benefits of the EVF - especially wysiwyg - far outweigh the disadvantages. 

The battery life is an issue, but not because I might need 3 or 5 batteries rather than 2.  They are small, and don't take up much room.  But almost always needing to have a spare rather than leaving the house with just the battery in the camera makes a bit difference.  Similarly, having dual card slots in my Nikon meant I walked out with two cards and enough battery for many hundreds of shots.  Now, I need to take an extra battery and an extra card - something to remember and stuff in my pocket. 

Given that the essential difference in kit size is the m43 lenses rather than the largish bodies I use, I would love to have a slightly larger body with dual card slots and a much bigger battery.  I'd even go for microSD if that made the difference. 
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tino tedaldi

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Re: I'm starting to wonder if "mirrorless" is all it's hyped up to be
« Reply #70 on: May 03, 2015, 09:40:38 AM »

...Well, I think there's a difference between seeing pictures on social media and electronic devices and looking at photographs in a gallery and a a book

  The instamatic (remember) never really stopped photographers using large format, but maybe it helped them to go to 35mm.Pus ca change etc etc

 Looking forward to using omd-5 mark 2   :)
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