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Author Topic: EPSON 9890 - printing on odd hybrid media, and early paper out signal..  (Read 5963 times)

faneuil

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Ok. hang with me here.
I am direct printing on inkaid coated 24 gauge aluminum (yep.. super cool and it works.. mostly)

to print full bleed, I attach a 1 inch border of white paper around the periphery of the aluminum sheet.
So imagine: 24 x 24" aluminum sheet with 1" white paper border (attached on back with painter's tape) for total of 26x26" square

I set custom paper to 26"x26" with 0.25 0.25 0.25 0.56 borders (Epson 9890 standard borders)
I print a 25"x25" image onto said material. and voila! beautiful full bleed image on metal.
BUT -- for some reason the printer generates 'out of paper' signal about 5" before end of printing.

so.. I cut a 26x26" pieced of thin chipboard (cardboard), ran that instead and image printed completely.

I tried the metal / paper tape with a longer 'tail' but still triggered out of paper at same spot.

I think the change in materials (from aluminum to paper border) is somehow triggering an early out of paper signal.
Any thoughts?

cheers,
Eric
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Ken Doo

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Re: EPSON 9890 - printing on odd hybrid media, and early paper out signal..
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2015, 12:00:11 pm »

The 79/99** series printers have a printer sensor which may be the culprit. Try changing the printer settings to turn off paper size and skew functions---and maybe that will help.

Very cool btw...

ken

faneuil

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Re: EPSON 9890 - printing on odd hybrid media, and early paper out signal..
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2015, 12:06:02 pm »

thanks - I do think I have paper skew turned off. but will check paper size option

I was thinking of using large (30"x30" square) of thin brown kraft paper and doublesided taping the metal to the center of the paper. That way at least the back of printer will see same substrate throughout the print cycle.
This would not help of course if the sensor looks at the front of the paper..

Eric
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faneuil

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Re: EPSON 9890 - printing on odd hybrid media, and early paper out signal..
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2015, 12:12:33 pm »

paper size is off -- I checked 9890 manual, this option only checks that paper loaded width matches print size before printing begins.

-eric
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brinked

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Re: EPSON 9890 - printing on odd hybrid media, and early paper out signal..
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2015, 03:38:51 pm »

thats pretty cool.  I own a 9890 as well but I use it for sublimation.  Have any photos of how your metal prints turn out?
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faneuil

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Re: EPSON 9890 - printing on odd hybrid media, and early paper out signal..
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2015, 03:43:18 pm »

thanks - here is a small mock up I did for a local gallery.

my other work? www.korenman.com
thanks
eric
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brinked

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Re: EPSON 9890 - printing on odd hybrid media, and early paper out signal..
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2015, 05:17:34 pm »

thats pretty cool  Do you have any color prints?  How is the quality compared to a traditional metal print using dye sublimation?
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jferrari

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Re: EPSON 9890 - printing on odd hybrid media, and early paper out signal..
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2015, 11:45:12 pm »

One solution would be to prepare a "carrier board" of the same thickness as your prepared aluminum sheet. Cut an opening in the carrier board the exact size of your aluminum and affix it to the carrier from behind with a single layer of transparent scotch tape. You can leave a "tail" on the carrier board if you want to but make sure that your custom paper size reflects the actual size of the board.

What I would do if it was up to me would be to use 26" wide aluminum then trim to final size upon completion of printing. Hope this helps.      - Jim
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faneuil

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Re: EPSON 9890 - printing on odd hybrid media, and early paper out signal..
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2015, 06:43:10 am »

thanks - yes I tries a carrier board as well! same issue. triggers an out of paper signal way too early.
My next try is going to be with thin brown kraft paper cut larger than the aluminum square so back material is consistent throughout printing.

so close..
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faneuil

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Re: EPSON 9890 - printing on odd hybrid media, and early paper out signal..
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2015, 07:38:04 am »

found this

April 17th, 2013, 02:51 PM
Ok, I just got off the phone with a gentleman at Epson support. He was very helpful and said they have received a lot of calls about issues printing over existing prints. He explained this is only an issue with the 7890/9890, 7900/9900 and 4900 printers because they added an optical paper sensor (called the PW Sensor) to the print head. This sensor is not in previous or newest printer models, as they realized this is an issue. This sensor has many responsibilities, including checking the alignment, paper size and skew. Disabling the paper size and skew check in the printer menu will not fix or effect the problem, and they explained this sensor can not be disabled, disconnected or tricked. The optical paper sensor constantly reads the paper during printing, so the top or side white paper margins don't matter, if it sees what it thinks is the end of the paper, it will stop printing. Sometimes it will see printed area and stop printing, but other times it will not see the print and successfully print a second layer over the entire sheet, so the results are not consistent (as we have come to realize after much testing).

Prior to releasing Piezography for these printer models, our test results were great and this printer sensor issue wasn't discovered until later. Unfortunately, we have no control over the printers, nor can we foresee and avoid all possible issues, though we do put a lot of time into researching and testing our products prior to release, and continue to use our carts and inks every day to ensure the highest quality products and knowledge of our products. Epson has recognized the problem this sensor is causing, and has abandoned it for their new printers. Unfortunately, their new SureColor S-series printers are MUCH more expensive than the previous models, and it's very possible they would not be supported by QTR.

At this point, the solutions are:
1. Get a second printer (I recommend a 7600/9600, 7800/9800 or 7880/9880) to use as a GO coating machine, which will ultimately double your production to have one printing ink and the other printing GO (we have a 7600 set up as a GO only printer, and it works great). The GO printer should be in ok condition, but doesn't need to be in perfect (as you want for the ink printer). As long as it has at least one good print head channel, you can use it or GO printing.
2. Manually spray coat the prints using Hahnemuhle, Lumijet or a similar glossy protective spray for inkjet. The drawbacks of this are that you need a very clean and well ventilated area to spray, and it takes some practice to get a nice even coating.
3. We have already spent a great deal of time trying to find a way to print GO at the same time as ink. In past attempts, we got close, but there was always some sort of imperfection that were not happy with, and discovered the second pass GO coating over dry ink produces the best results, so abandoned the simultaneous printing idea... We will attempt this idea again, though are not hopeful it will work, and would not be able to do this for all glossy papers, because the GO limit may ultimately different from paper to paper. Printing GO at the same time also increases the overall ink limit and can effect the print detail. As perfectionists and the developers of Piezography- we require crisp detail, even gloss finish with no bronzing (we are not easily satisfied), so we will spend some time on this possibly as early as tomorrow, but can't make any promises that it will work to our satisfaction in order to offer as a solution for our customers.
[/i][/i]

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faneuil

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Re: EPSON 9890 - printing on odd hybrid media, and early paper out signal..
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2015, 07:56:45 am »

diving into my 9890. wish me luck. The PW sensor is the issue..
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faneuil

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Re: EPSON 9890 - printing on odd hybrid media, and early paper out signal..
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2015, 08:47:23 am »

I think we have a breakthrough..

I followed the advice I found online. I increased the width of the carrier board. I mounted 24x24 metal on 40x32 "chipboard" cardboard.
This satisfies the PW sensor so it detects consistent paper optical density.
and I was able to print full bleed.
Until I had a head crash. DOH! I was pushing limits of max thickness at .13 cm with metal on board.
Printer ok. But now will try with 'mat' technique. cutting space away from center of chipboard and paper taping metal in place.

Eric
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Erland

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Re: EPSON 9890 - printing on odd hybrid media, and early paper out signal..
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2015, 08:48:03 am »

Depending on how the sensor is working, there might be a solution of changing the sensor into a version capable of reading (seeing) black. The machines I work with (enveloping/inserting machines) sometimes need to be modified, changing into a sensor capable of reading black, as certain inserts are preprinted with either a lot of color or just plain black. Kind of the same problem, yet different.
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Ken Doo

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Re: EPSON 9890 - printing on odd hybrid media, and early paper out signal..
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2015, 09:38:14 am »

Faneuil,

I thought I'd add to your findings about the PW sensor, since that is the culprit in occasional difficulties with the GO process in gloss piezography with the latest generation printers 79/99** as well.   There are a few of other practices that I have found that encourage the PW sensor to allow the printer to continue along its happy path and continue printing. This may aid in your endeavors on metal.

1. I have found that having larger paper margins can help.
2. I insert the print into the printer with the side that has the darkest shades first.
3. Turn the lights out on printing.

I was at the "forefront" of these very frustrating issues with the PW sensor and the "second printing" with gloss optimizer with piezography. The PW sensor is fickle and inconsistent at best. Frustrating to say the least, particularly since I purchased a new 9890 specifically for B&W piezography. I can't tell you definitively what works 100% of the time, but I can tell you that once I became sensitive to the issue and adopted the above, I have had very few issues since with the GO process on my 9890. Maybe it was the voodoo magic and shaking of the bloody chicken leg at the printer or the idle threats of conversion back to a lowly normal plebian printer that did it. My guess is that the PW sensor could be disabled via firmware update, but I doubt Epson cares enough about their users who are dabbling in alternative printing, particularly with other inksets that don't feed into the liquid gold business model of using only Epson ink, to spend time/resources to issue such a firmware update.

Let us know if you find other useful tips that may help.

Ken

faneuil

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Re: EPSON 9890 - printing on odd hybrid media, and early paper out signal..
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2015, 01:15:38 pm »

thanks all - yep was DEFINITELY the PW sensor.
widening the borders of the carrier was the solution.

Success just now.

Eric
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disneytoy

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Re: EPSON 9890 - printing on odd hybrid media, and early paper out signal..
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2015, 01:43:49 pm »

Looks great, So in conclusion:

How much of a boarder did you add?

Is the chipboard the same thickness as the Aluminum?

And you said you have check paper size off, anything else in the settings turned off?

I'm like 2 steps behind you trying to print fine art on aluminum.

Thanks

M~

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faneuil

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Re: EPSON 9890 - printing on odd hybrid media, and early paper out signal..
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2015, 03:33:43 pm »

I read that you need at least 3" of border. So I just went big - way past that.
I have thin 40x32" pieces of chipboard that I buy at local art store for $2 a sheet.
It happens to be almost as thick as 24 gauge aluminum sheeting, but it doesn't have to match.
I tape back of chipboard to metal with blue painters tape (why is that stuff so expensive??)
I have used a variety of platen width setting, but settled on using max of 1.5 mm nearly all the time - it doesn't affect image to my eye, and I don't want to risk the print head touching the metal surface. (from experience -- I clogged the head terribly that time)
I used custom paper size of 40x32 with 0.25 0.25 0.25 0.56 borders
I print from lightroom and the two step print menus can be confusing.
I find I HAVE to check off "expand to fit paper" option and then select the custom paper size

good luck!
Eric

« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 03:35:33 pm by faneuil »
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faneuil

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Re: EPSON 9890 - printing on odd hybrid media, and early paper out signal..
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2015, 05:04:17 pm »

what type of fixative spray are people using?
Was going to use PYM II but the site cheeses me out a bit.. http://www.pymii.com/
Or Golden Archival spray??

thanks
eric
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