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Author Topic: Thom Hogan on declining camera sales  (Read 116929 times)

BJL

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geo-tagging: just add phone, and battery pack[s] for it, and a charger for it ...
« Reply #120 on: February 12, 2015, 03:44:56 pm »

One way to get around it is to have a compact or phone with GPS with you. Take a shot at each location with the GPS enabled, than batch update the location on your "serious" shots.
That sort of works, but with extra hassle afterwards of transferring location data into the EXIF data of the camera's image files.

That hassle could be avoided if the phone and camera communicate suitably by WiFi, Bluetooth etc. to geo-tag the photo on the fly, but then that sustained usage of the phone for GPS is likely to deplete _its_ battery in less that a full day, and certainly on a multi-day excursion. (Or you parsimoniously turn the phone's GPS on before each photo and turn it off afterward.) So then you probably need to carry a spare battery for the phone, or an an external battery booster for the many phones that do not have removable batteries, and on a multi-day photographic excursion you probably end up needing to carry a charger for the phone, and hope to have access to electricity every night. With in-camera geo-tagging instead, a few spare camera batteries are enough for multiple days.

All these location-recording alternatives sound like both more work and more gear to carry that having geo-tagging capability in the camera itself.
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dwswager

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Re: Thom Hogan on declining camera sales
« Reply #121 on: February 12, 2015, 04:24:23 pm »

While GPS can chew battery, it can be turned off.  And I'd trade GPS, WIFI and even mobile broadband for Video any day!
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kirktuck

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Re: Thom Hogan on declining camera sales
« Reply #122 on: February 12, 2015, 06:50:27 pm »

Boy, that was a patronizing link. Having a background in electrical engineering I know as well as most people what GPS is all about. But thinking that it's necessary everywhere at all times is a fad. Like bell bottom trousers, Abba music and lamb chop sideburns. Geotagging is the modern equivalent of driving around with CB radios in cars. Just because you understand it and have doesn't mean it's smart to use something all the time. A bottle of vodka can be fun to pour drinks from on occasion but swigging it down every time you walk into the kitchen is a mess.

I'm happy everyone likes their GPS. We'll all laugh about it together in the future, like 8 track music players...
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BJL

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Re: Thom Hogan on declining camera sales
« Reply #123 on: February 12, 2015, 08:01:48 pm »

Boy, that was a patronizing link. ... But thinking that it's necessary everywhere at all times is a fad.
Kirk,

    You are asking for a patronizing link to straw man fallacy, because that is what you are doing with that hyperbolic nonsense about "thinking that GPS is necessary everywhere at all times" and "doesn't mean it's smart to use something all the time".  I see no one here claiming that, and there is no need to make such an extreme claim in order to argue for or defend the presence of GPS in cameras. It is sufficient that a substantial number of photographers have a good reason for wanting convenient location tagging of their photos, some of the time.

That and the fact that this can be implemented in a way that has little or no impact on battery life and such if and when not needed.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 08:14:44 pm by BJL »
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kirktuck

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Re: Thom Hogan on declining camera sales
« Reply #124 on: February 12, 2015, 10:02:37 pm »

Right.....
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jjj

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Re: Thom Hogan on declining camera sales
« Reply #125 on: February 13, 2015, 11:01:50 am »

Boy, that was a patronizing link. Having a background in electrical engineering I know as well as most people what GPS is all about. But thinking that it's necessary everywhere at all times is a fad. Like bell bottom trousers, Abba music and lamb chop sideburns. Geotagging is the modern equivalent of driving around with CB radios in cars. Just because you understand it and have doesn't mean it's smart to use something all the time. A bottle of vodka can be fun to pour drinks from on occasion but swigging it down every time you walk into the kitchen is a mess.

I'm happy everyone likes their GPS. We'll all laugh about it together in the future, like 8 track music players...
As we will at people who name their files and add keywords.
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sniper

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Re: Thom Hogan on declining camera sales
« Reply #126 on: February 13, 2015, 12:01:44 pm »

Are we in danger of adding too many things into put cameras?   
Mobile phones have now become music centres, cameras, sat navs, and heaven knows what else. The cost? phones are now nearly back to the size of the old "bricks" and have a battery life of a few hours.  My old Nokia used to go 4 days no problem whan it was just a phone, now I'm carrying a spare battery to get through a day.
Personally I don't want or need my camera to be a gps/wi-fi/pc that makes the tea in the morning.  I'd settle for better high iso, and perhaps I'm clutching at straws but how about some built in memory? maybe 64gb and have it roll over the last 64gbs of pic, certainly cheaper than a second card slot.
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SZRitter

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Re: Thom Hogan on declining camera sales
« Reply #127 on: February 13, 2015, 12:08:34 pm »

Are we in danger of adding too many things into put cameras?   
Mobile phones have now become music centres, cameras, sat navs, and heaven knows what else. The cost? phones are now nearly back to the size of the old "bricks" and have a battery life of a few hours.  My old Nokia used to go 4 days no problem whan it was just a phone, now I'm carrying a spare battery to get through a day.
Personally I don't want or need my camera to be a gps/wi-fi/pc that makes the tea in the morning.  I'd settle for better high iso, and perhaps I'm clutching at straws but how about some built in memory? maybe 64gb and have it roll over the last 64gbs of pic, certainly cheaper than a second card slot.

The size of phones isn't the fault of what is stuffed in them, but rather the fault of usability. Just think of how much smaller the iPhone 5s is compared to the larger phones.
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jjj

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Re: Thom Hogan on declining camera sales
« Reply #128 on: February 13, 2015, 01:02:38 pm »

Are we in danger of adding too many things into put cameras?    
Mobile phones have now become music centres, cameras, sat navs, and heaven knows what else. The cost? phones are now nearly back to the size of the old "bricks" and have a battery life of a few hours.  My old Nokia used to go 4 days no problem whan it was just a phone, now I'm carrying a spare battery to get through a day.
Personally I don't want or need my camera to be a gps/wi-fi/pc that makes the tea in the morning.  I'd settle for better high iso, and perhaps I'm clutching at straws but how about some built in memory? maybe 64gb and have it roll over the last 64gbs of pic, certainly cheaper than a second card slot.
The size of phones isn't the fault of what is stuffed in them, but rather the fault of usability. Just think of how much smaller the iPhone 5s is compared to the larger phones.
Even more so with say the 4s. It does everything the much bigger phones do, albeit with a smaller screen. Though newer phones are a tad thinner.
The other thing to think about that even the big phones are tiny compared to the things they replace. Also it is instructive to to not think of them as phones. From my point of view, it's a computer that fits in my pocket that I can also make phone calls with. It's also a dj system, a notebook, a pocket camera, a processing lab an alarm clock, an atlas, a calendar, a game centre, etc, etc.
This flexibility and power is why they are so very popular.

BTW The only reason an old Nokia phone lasted longer is because it couldn't do very much.  :P

Built in rolling memory is an interesting idea from a backup point of view. It would need to be rather large though, because people who would really need such things may be shooting for days at a time.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 01:09:02 pm by jjj »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Thom Hogan on declining camera sales
« Reply #129 on: February 13, 2015, 01:25:46 pm »

... Also it is instructive to not think of them as phones. From my point of view, it's a computer that fits in my pocket that I can also make phone calls with. It's also a dj system, a notebook, a pocket camera, a processing lab an alarm clock, an atlas, a calendar, a game centre, etc, etc....

+1

The younger generation is rarely using it for phone calls these days (unless they are talking to their parents, that is).

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Thom Hogan on declining camera sales
« Reply #130 on: February 13, 2015, 03:54:45 pm »

Well, nice to hear that the young generation talks to their parents…

Best regards
Erik

+1

The younger generation is rarely using it for phone calls these days (unless they are talking to their parents, that is).

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BJL

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Re: Thom Hogan on declining camera sales
« Reply #131 on: February 13, 2015, 05:02:21 pm »

Also it is instructive to to not think of them as phones. From my point of view, it's a computer that fits in my pocket that I can also make phone calls with. ...
Agreed.  Or maybe they are pocketable "communication and entertainment devices" -- which is also what computers have become for many people.  (Those us who actually write programs and do computations are a rare breed.)
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dwswager

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Re: Thom Hogan on declining camera sales
« Reply #132 on: February 16, 2015, 05:27:13 pm »

Agreed.  Or maybe they are pocketable "communication and entertainment devices" -- which is also what computers have become for many people.  (Those us who actually write programs and do computations are a rare breed.)

My Note II replaced my Pocket PC (that had GPS) and it makes calls!
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jjj

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Re: Thom Hogan on declining camera sales
« Reply #133 on: February 18, 2015, 11:54:40 am »

Of note I gave my girlfriend my iPhone 4s when I moved on to a newer device as her clockwork Android was looking a bit battered and she's not that fussed about big phones.
Now whilst she was waiting for a new sim card to arrive, the phone was left  with just the basic iOS on and no ability to call anyone and it lasted nearly 4 days as opposed to the usual two thirds or half a day I would get from it and I am a very light user of phones. Wifi and Bluetooth were left on as well.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Thom Hogan on declining camera sales
« Reply #134 on: February 18, 2015, 03:20:50 pm »

Hi,

Personally, I would like a camera with built in cell phone.

Technically, Apple makes a cell phone without the capability to make phone calls, it is called the iPad. I love my iPad but I hate my cell phone.

Best regards
Erik

Agreed.  Or maybe they are pocketable "communication and entertainment devices" -- which is also what computers have become for many people.  (Those us who actually write programs and do computations are a rare breed.)
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BJL

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Re: Thom Hogan on declining camera sales
« Reply #135 on: February 18, 2015, 05:33:12 pm »

Technically, Apple makes a cell phone without the capability to make phone calls, it is called the iPad.
And before that, the iPod Touch.  I was one of many people who got an iPod Touch because I wanted its pocket computer features, but was not sufficiently interested in the "phone calls and text messages" part of the iPhone.
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SZRitter

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Re: Thom Hogan on declining camera sales
« Reply #136 on: February 19, 2015, 06:06:28 pm »

And before that, the iPod Touch.  I was one of many people who got an iPod Touch because I wanted its pocket computer features, but was not sufficiently interested in the "phone calls and text messages" part of the iPhone.

Just to be the one upper on this one...

I bought the first iPod touch a couple of days before they were supposed to be released because I found a Best Buy that was selling them already if you asked for one. But yeah, I didn't want to pay for a data plan at the time, so I got that instead.
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dwswager

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Re: Thom Hogan on declining camera sales
« Reply #137 on: February 22, 2015, 11:58:36 am »

Just to be the one upper on this one...

I bought the first iPod touch a couple of days before they were supposed to be released because I found a Best Buy that was selling them already if you asked for one. But yeah, I didn't want to pay for a data plan at the time, so I got that instead.

If we are one upping, the I bought a Asus 696 Pocket PC in 1995 that other than not making phone calls, was more functional than an iPhone 6!
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SZRitter

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Re: Thom Hogan on declining camera sales
« Reply #138 on: February 23, 2015, 12:07:39 pm »

If we are one upping, the I bought a Asus 696 Pocket PC in 1995 that other than not making phone calls, was more functional than an iPhone 6!

I think that beats my Palm Pilot from the late 90s. My, how technology has changed...
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Justinr

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Re: Thom Hogan on declining camera sales
« Reply #139 on: February 26, 2015, 04:40:39 pm »

Well, nice to hear that the young generation talks to their parents…

Best regards
Erik


Usually when they are after something!
« Last Edit: February 26, 2015, 06:45:38 pm by Justinr »
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