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Author Topic: Contax 645 Zeiss lenses on Nikon DSLR... impressive results (the JAS adapter).  (Read 21435 times)

ErikKaffehr

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No,

You don't understand, 80 mm is 80 mm on an APS-C body. But, on an MFD it is about a normal lens.

On the APS-C it is a short tele lens. If you assume that a subject fills the frame on APS-C you would need around 120 mm on full frame 135 and around 180 on medium format to fill those larger frames.

You can photograph sea lions with an 80 mm lens on APS-C, if they are behind a cage or you are in cage. You can of course shoot sea lions with an 80 mm on APS-C in the wild, it is just that you your life expectancy may be shortened.

Best regards
Erik

thanks for explaining this and the useful link. If I understand right this means the angle of view of the same 80mm lens would be a whopping 180mm on an aps-c body... maybe good for photographing sea lions?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 03:45:44 am by ErikKaffehr »
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Erik Kaffehr
 

Theodoros

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By the way... Since a FF DSLR is about 1.5xcrop frame of 6x4.5 (when held at "landscape" orientation) and since Nikon's 16mp sensor is of 7.2microns of pixel size (Same as Dalsa 33mp - 1.33x crop factor with respect to DSLR) and Nikon's 24mp sensor's pixel is of 6microns (as plenty -todays majority- other MF sensors are), one can easily imagine -if he is familiar with the lenses performance on MF (or Leica S)- the kind of performance he would expect on a FF DSLR... If I would have to add, I only worried for performance on the 36MP sensor before I ordered it... but it proved to be fine... Just fine!  Another thing is that corner/edge performance is uniform with the centre one at any aperture... but this is to expected... and of course, vignetting is an unknown word for the system.
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lowep

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Hmmm.... lots to learn about crop factors and sea lions :o

Let me ask this then, when I look through the "normal" 80mm MF lens via the viewfinder of my Contax 645 what I see of the subject included within the frame is "about" the same as what I used to see when I looked at the same subject through the "normal" 50mm Leica R lens via the viewfinder of my old 35mm Leica RE camera, right?

So, if I mounted this same 80mm MF lens via an adapter on my old 35mm Leica RE body would I see more, less or the same subject within the frame?

How much more or less of the subject would I see within the frame if I mounted the same 80mm MF lens via an adapter on a camera with an APS-C-sized sensor?

Maybe I should post this in Beginner´s Questions rather than here?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 04:12:37 pm by lowep »
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Theodoros

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Hmmm.... lots to learn about crop factors and sea lions :o

Let me ask this then, when I look through the "normal" 80mm MF lens via the viewfinder of my Contax 645 what I see of the subject included within the frame is "about" the same as what I used to see when I looked at the same subject through the "normal" 50mm Leica R lens via the viewfinder of my old 35mm Leica RE camera, right?

So, if I mounted this same 80mm MF lens via an adapter on my old 35mm Leica RE body would I see more, less or the same subject within the frame?

How much more or less of the subject would I see within the frame if I mounted the same 80mm MF lens via an adapter on a camera with an APS-C-sized sensor?

Maybe I should post this in Beginner´s Questions rather than here?
You'll see less angle, exactly the same angle as if you would use a Leica R 80mm lens...
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lowep

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Ah huh! Thanks, now even I understand  ;)
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william

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I'm back with a mirco-review of this adapter for those interested:

(1) I'm using the adapter with Contax 140mm and 210mm lenses thus far on a Nikon D800.  It works really well.  Fit and finish are good and focus is both relatively fast and fairly accurate (very little focus hunting and sharp focus in the resulting pictures).

(2) Indeed, judging from my recollection as a long-time Contax 645 user, focus with these lenses on the D800 via this adapter is significantly better than on the Contax 645 body itself.  As those of you who use or have used Contax 645 know, AF was always somewhat slow, lots of hunting in anything other than the brightest light, etc.  Because I loved the lenses, I was willing to live with that (often just resorting to focusing manually).   But on the D800 with this adapter, AF is *dramatically* better than on the Contax 645 body.  I'd say it's at least as good as my non-AFS Nikon lenses are on the D800.  (That doesn't sound impressive unless you've used the Contax lenses on the Contax body, where the AF performance was nowhere near as good as even a non-AFS Nikon lens on a Nikon body).

(3) As it happens, I also have a Leica S and the Leica-made Contax-to-Leica S adapter.  The JAS adapter + Contax lenses on the D800 body also has significantly better AF than the same lenses used with the Leica adapter on the Leica S body.  I did a fairly extensive back and forth last night since I have both adapters and both bodies, swapping the same lens on each body using each adapter.   There's no question that the AF performance with the JAS+D800 is much better than with the same Contax lenses using the Leica adapter+Leica S.  I was completely flabbergasted by this.  The Leica S adapter is decent: that is, its AF performance is reminiscent of the performance of the Contax lenses on the Contax body, so I really can't complain (Plus I didn't pay full price for mine: bought it used).  But compared to using these lenses with the JAS adapter on the D800, it's no contest.  I'm not sure if this is because the D800 AF motor is better/stronger than the Leica S AF motor, or if it's because the JAS adapter is better than the Leica adapter, or a combination of both.  But whatever it is, it's pretty impressive that some random guy (no offense, obviously a very talented guy) made an adapter that rivals or exceeds the adapter made by a multi-billion dollar company, for less than half the cost.  (I realize I may be comparing apples to oranges, since the difference may well be attributable to the different AF motors driving the lenses, rather than to the different adapter, or at least not solely due to the different adapters.)  It tempts me to lobby him to make a JAS Contax-to-Leica S adapter....

(4) The AF performance of the Contax lenses on the D800 body via the JAS adapter is at least as good in terms of speed and accuracy as the AF performance of the two native Leica S lenses I own on the Leica S body.  My initial impression is that it's definitely better than the AF performance of the 70mm Leica S lens (with the old firmware -- haven't been able to update the lens firmware yet for that lens) and at least as good, if not slightly better, than the 30-90 Leica S lens (with latest firmware), especially in dim light.  In bright light, they're roughly comparable, but in dim light, it's pretty compelling that Contax+JAS+Nikon D800 is faster and more accurate than my Leica S lenses on the Leica S body.
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Theodoros

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  But compared to using these lenses with the JAS adapter on the D800, it's no contest.  I'm not sure if this is because the D800 AF motor is better/stronger than the Leica S AF motor, or if it's because the JAS adapter is better than the Leica adapter, or a combination of both. 

Hi William, thanks for confirming my observations... Actually D800 has no AF motor in its body, the Contax 645 Zeiss lenses have an AF motor inside them (much like the AF-S Nikkors).... So there is no other explanation but that the AF problem with the C645 is in the camera's AF sensor for sensitivity and accuracy... which is explainable given how old the system is.
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peterv

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Hi William,

many thanks for your mirco-review, much appreciated. I tried two Contax-Leica S adapters but one was so tight, I couldn't attach it to the camera, the other had firmware problems. After that, I gave up. Is your adapter working as advertised?

I believe that Steel is working on this... (don't know if leaf shutter will work though - not that I would care with flash sync up to 1/250).

I think that's good news since such an adapter would make the S lenses more versatile. If you look at the MTF's, performance on a FF sensor would be outstanding.

But again, if one goes for the new S007, or doesn't need or use higher ISO with one of the older S-series, why use a DSLR at all?

Indeed it's the reportage/higher ISO work that makes me want to use my lenses with an adapter on a fast DSLR.

...I find the Leica compact and flexible  enough... 

Absolutely!
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Osprey

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The D800 definitely has an AF motor in the body for screwdriver style old AF Nikkors.
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Theodoros

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The D800 definitely has an AF motor in the body for screwdriver style old AF Nikkors.

It sure has... but it is inactive with the C645 lenses via the JAS adapter on it... which is what I was referring to. The C645 lenses have two motors in the lens, one for focus and another for aperture (although there is an aperture ring, the aperture is electronic), that's why one couldn't fit C645 lenses before on a Nikon camera... he couldn't control the aperture! The JAS adapter manages to both connect the AF motor in the lens with the AF system of Nikon cameras and also to control the aperture motor via the camera's dial.
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ynp

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Thank you very mach indeed. Very useful info:

"""' m(3) As it happens, I also have a Leica S and the Leica-made Contax-to-Leica S adapter.  The JAS adapter + Contax lenses on the D800 body also has significantly better AF than the same lenses used with the Leica adapter on the Leica S body.  I did a fairly extensive back and forth last night since I have both adapters and both bodies, swapping the same lens on each body using each adapter.   There's no question that the AF performance with the JAS+D800 is much better than with the same Contax lenses using the Leica adapter+Leica S.  I was completely flabbergasted by this.  The Leica S adapter is decent: that is, its AF performance is reminiscent of the performance of the Contax lenses on the Contax body, so I really can't complain (Plus I didn't pay full price for mine: bought it used).  But compared to using these lenses with the JAS adapter on the D800, it's no contest.  I'm not sure if this is because the D800 AF motor is better/stronger than the Leica S AF motor, or if it's because the JAS adapter is better than the Leica adapter, or a combination of both.  But whatever it is, it's pretty impressive that some random guy (no offense, obviously a very talented guy) made an adapter that rivals or exceeds the adapter made by a multi-billion dollar company, for less than half the cost.  (I realize I may be comparing apples to oranges, since the difference may well be attributable to the different AF motors driving the lenses, rather than to the different adapter, or at least not solely due to the different adapters.)  It tempts me to lobby him to make a JAS Contax-to-Leica S adapter...."""

I am ready to support the development of  the JAS C-to-Leica-S adapter. Count me in. Or a Rolley-to-Leica-S adapter....?
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Theodoros

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Hi Yevgeny, do you know if leaf shutter lenses can be supported by Contax 645? If it could (obviously in a Similar manner to Mamyia or Leica), a Rollei to Contax adapter should be interesting...
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JV

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I am ready to support the development of  the JAS C-to-Leica-S adapter. Count me in. Or a Rolley-to-Leica-S adapter....?

I would actually also be interested in both.

Especially the Rollei to Leica S adapter (strangely enough no Leica equivalent yet) would be very nice...!!! 
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ynp

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Hello, Theodoros.

Never heard about Rolleiflex-to-Contax adapters. I heard a rumour about Rolleiflex-to-Leica adaptation two years ago, no confirmation from anyone knowledgeble since. I am mostly interested to find a use of the 55 mm. TS lens on a current digital platform.
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lowep

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Why don't you mail Steel and ask him?

I did and he was kind enough to reply, saying:

Currently I have C645/EF and C645/NIKON adapters for sale. To use C645 lens on Sony E-mount , you need another EF/NEX adapter to make it work...

 

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Alex Waugh

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Somewhat unrelated but does anyone have a clue as to what a good copy of the 80/2 should go for? Im trying to find one and can't get any idea of price for a lens without body.
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peterv

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Alex, try the Lens Price Database here:

http://www.jcolwell.ca/photography/lens$db/index.htm

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EinstStein

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If you don't have a Contax 645 yet, it may not worthwhile. To support a larger image circle, it has to sacrify something compared to a lens designed ffor a smaller image circle. Do no expect magic if it involves one of the best 35mm system providers, you will get different image endering for sure.

In my view, ths adaper is for people/ who already have a Contax 645 system and a Canon or Nikon system.  You wil find it is very hard to find the C645 lens you wanted. The lens price is atually very good if you find one. Go check out  keh.com. But  I feel $850 for the adapter is hard to justify. YMMV.

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Theodoros

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Hmmm... I don't really know about that... FF format is basically 1.5x crop of 6x4.5 format. As some may have tried with the best FF lenses used on APS-c format, the lenses cope very well with it, despite the fact that the pixels on APS-c (in most cases) are considerably smaller. With FF the pixels are of comparative size with MFDBs in all other but the D800/E/810 cameras and even there there is not much difference than an 80mp back... My D800E didn't "complain" at all with the Zeiss glass on it and the usual Zeiss characteristics (superb anti-flare performance, contrast and colour saturation e.t.c) where more than welcome... Clearly the output files hold more DR after processing (especially with HLs) and they need less processing too (due to the higher contrast they exhibit - with Nikkors "out of the camera" files are visibly duller).

One can expect the usual Zeiss "bite" that is known with the ZF lenses and additionally have (fast and accurate) AF performance with the C645 lenses and also... C645 lenses are much better build and cost "peanuts" to what they really worth...  I really should expect prices on C645 lenses to rise considerably with all these adapters that enable them to be used on Leica/Canon and Nikon with full dedication... Lets not forget that there is a Contax mount coming for Cambo Actus too and the wider image circle will be most welcome there if a Sony A is mounted on the Actus.... That way one can have one series of superb lenses all for his FF, MF and view camera... That would be something great.

 
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EinstStein

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I understand your points. I am fancied about  Zeiss and Leica, I have almost every legandary stuffs from them.
But, technology is moving fast. Nikon and Canonmay nevery be able to demonstrate Laica and Zeiss aesthetic charactereitics, but the resolution, uniformity, etc., the non-aesthetic properties  may compensate a little that I think worth to consider. My advice is if you will or already have a c645, it will make perfect sense to adapter c645 lens on Nikon, but if only Nikon, my prsonal opinion is it is not.
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