Printer profiling: how much should I worry about OBAs?

[torger]

I know the theoretical aspects of OBAs and the basics of OBA compensation. What I don't know is how much to worry. I have a colormunki instrument which has a UV cut filter and thus it cannot see any OBA effect, so I'm wondering if it will make noticably tinted profiles due to that, or if it's going to be a very minor Delta E error.

I'm looking at Hahnemühle papers, and while the baryta papers have no OBA, the matte photo rag has "moderate". What "moderate" OBA content in Hahnemühle-speak means I have no idea. I've heard some say high quality papers have lower OBA content but I don't know if that's true.

At one end of the worry scale I could say "I only will use OBA-free paper as that is the only paper my instrument can profile correctly", in the middle "I can use any Hahnemühle paper because they have low enough OBA content to be negligble in the profiling process", and in the other end "I can use any paper regardless of OBA content and not worry as the effect is very small anyway".

What is the general view on this?

[Alan Goldhammer]

I regularly print on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Ultra Smooth which has some OBAs.  I profile all my papers using ArgyllCMS which does allow for some compensation with OBA containing papers.  I did NOT do anything special to compensate when I profiled the papers and am fully satisfied with the prints.  The best thing to do when you profile anything is to use one of the many standard prints that are available on the Internet to see how the results are.  I use the Outback test print but Andrew Rodney also has some good ones on his website as well.

[Tim Lookingbill]

Maybe this...OBA vs non-OBA print comparison review will help...

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/paper/innova_fibaprint.html

[digitaldog]

What I don't know is how much to worry.

Assuming OBA compensation is possible when building a profile (assuming OBA's cause issues when viewing your print), the main concern IMHO is that over time, they lose their Fluorescence which can be a problem archiving those prints.

[torger]

Problem is that with my instrument compensation is not possible, as it has a UV cut filter and does not see the OBA effect. Thus my guess is that it would measure some tones too warm, which should make the resulting profile print too cool colors in some ranges. How big delta E that would be I don't know, if it's like 1 I can live with it, if its 7 it would not be as great.

If OBAs just alter the global "white balance" of the paper slighty I guess it would be no problem, but if it changes only certain hues and others are kept the same there would be a distortion. Haven't been able to find information how OBAs change color except for the paper white point.

[torger]

Found this at northlight:

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/profiling/i1_pro2_photo.html#optical_brightener_compensation_profiling

it has some photo examples so you get an idea of how big impact OBAs have, and OBA-compensated profiles.

It seems to be that OBAs are bad news even if you can profile for it... it makes the print unpredictable. You need to be outside to have enough UV-content to get full OBA-effect, and thus a OBA-compensated profile made for D50 may look yellowish in indoor light.

As indoor light has lower UV content in general, it seems to me that if you have a paper with low OBA content and display it indoors there should be a rather small error if your profile is made with a UV-cut spectrophotometer.

I found this list which gives some info on OBA content on various papers:
http://aardenburg-imaging.com/cgi-bin/mrk/_4534c2hvd19kb2NfbGlzdC80
It seems like Hanhemühle's "moderate" is "low" when you look across several manufacturers, so hopefully that will not produce much problems. Otherwise one could use their Baryta papers which are OBA-free.

[Tim Lookingbill]

I had questions on whether it's worth the PITA being concerned over OBA's and profiling for it in this thread a while back...

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=95251.120

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=95251.40

I took pictures of my prints off an Epson "All In One" using Printer Manages Color on Epson Ultra Premium Glossy paper which has OBA content. There were so many variables that changed the look of both paper and color depending on the kind of light the print is viewed under I decided it wasn't worth the trouble dealing with it since if the print goes bad 25 years from now I'll just print another one most likely with newer technology.

Or when I've passed someone will find the original digital file and print it again maybe 100 years from now. Life's too short to be that bleeding edge over a print.

[torger]

I had questions on whether it's worth the PITA being concerned over OBA's and profiling for it in this thread a while back...

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=95251.120

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=95251.40

I took pictures of my prints off an Epson "All In One" using Printer Manages Color on Epson Ultra Premium Glossy paper which has OBA content. There were so many variables that changed the look of both paper and color depending on the kind of light the print is viewed under I decided it wasn't worth the trouble dealing with it since if the print goes bad 25 years from now I'll just print another one most likely with newer technology.

Or when I've passed someone will find the original digital file and print it again maybe 100 years from now. Life's too short to be that bleeding edge over a print.

Thanks, interesting threads indeed. Lula is of course a forum when people like to go overkill, you can read threads here where a 1800 patch profile is considered "a simple preliminary profile" so it's good to hear someone that looks at it with sanity

However, I think it's not only about being practical, it's also about knowing the best practice of making a high quality product. Sure I won't be an Ansel Adams, but if I want to sell pictures I want I and the customer to feel that this print is made with the best techniques (within reason).

A high quality paper is generally low on OBA, and some are OBA free, so from all I've read so far I think in that case there won't be an issue.