I just reviewed the Pentax 645z

[torger]

These discussions go round and round.

Yep. I guess so, because those that actually know the numbers don't speak... . If anyone does find something substantial about Pentax sales, I'd surely like to know, I'm really curious about where medium format is going.

[Ken R]

J,

 I see you're having a not so good day. I feel for you. Really.

 You are doubtless right in that "lifestyle photographic products" need heavy marketing to sell. Leica is living proof of that.

 But the best "real product" marketing is word of mouth. And the 645Z is sure getting a lot of that these days

Edmund

Leica has the Products and the Brand. Thanks to many years of successful marketing. Pentax has the product in the 645z but does not have the brand name in the high end segment of the market. They have to work on that with marketing and service and support because at the end of the day the 645z is still an expensive product. Yes it might be "cheap" compared to the competition but it is still way more expensive than all other DSLRs. People spending that kind of cash expect a certain level of service which Pentax currently is not providing. I mean, none of this has anything to do with how good the 645z is as a product but more to do with how successful the 645z is and can be in regards to sales.

[eronald]

Leica has the Products and the Brand. Thanks to many years of successful marketing. Pentax has the product in the 645z but does not have the brand name in the high end segment of the market. They have to work on that with marketing and service and support because at the end of the day the 645z is still an expensive product. Yes it might be "cheap" compared to the competition but it is still way more expensive than all other DSLRs. People spending that kind of cash expect a certain level of service which Pentax currently is not providing. I mean, none of this has anything to do with how good the 645z is as a product but more to do with how successful the 645z is and can be in regards to sales.

I cannot remember when we last saw an MF camera that got such glowing reviews.
At least Pentax have a decent camera to sell - now where exactly is the "new Phase body"?

Edmund

[Gel]

I'd speculate the new Phase body is just around the corner. I went through the same thing waiting for the 1Ds3 replacement

Once you factor in the new cost prices, Phase and Pentax have a lot in common. New lens prices are quite high. The 90mm Macro and 28-35mm Pentax lenses being a good example of that.
Phase comes out with a new body, tilt screen and if they unlock the ISO range more on their backs you'd have very similar systems if going CMOS.

If any Phase reps are watching. I'd be happy to review their CMOS system, I have 5 weddings to shoot in April.

[Paul2660]

I can't see a tilt screen on a new Phase body as it would not interface with the existing backs.  I have given this a lot of thought, and if they give it screen, and it takes a current Phase back, the thing would be huge to accommodate the back and still have a tilt screen.  And if they give it a separate screen that tilts, somewhere else it will still be pretty big.  At least as I try to think about it.

I would love to see a Phase back, with a tilting screen, that would be RICH!!, and it may happen with the next generation of backs, anyone's guess.  It would not be that much to add, sure it would possibly compromise weather sealing, but that's out the door anyway with a IQ2 and the huge plastic plate on top of the back for the signal. 

Many photographers don't seem to need or appreciate the advantages of such a screen but to me it's huge, as you now have a waist level finder and much more flexibility in viewing the screen in mixed light.  It would be a great advantage for a DF type body, at least to my needs.

No doubt the new body is right around the corner however. 

I do have to wonder where it will price.  Right now, if you purchase a DF+, you have an offer to upgrade, not sure how much.  However the list of a new DF+ $4995.00, just camera is and has been pretty steep.  Phase did not offer a DF to DF+ trade in, or if they did, my dealer never let me know.  I would have easily traded up. 

So new body, in the 5 to 6 K range?  It will be interesting for sure. 

Paul

[Doug Peterson]

I do have to wonder where it will price.  Right now, if you purchase a DF+, you have an offer to upgrade, not sure how much.  However the list of a new DF+ $4995.00, just camera is and has been pretty steep.  Phase did not offer a DF to DF+ trade in, or if they did, my dealer never let me know.  I would have easily traded up. 

https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/upgrade-your-phase-one-df-to-a-df

This was also included in one of our newsletters.

[JV]

I do miss it, but the money I sold it for paid for the D-FA 55mm, 120mm Macro, 150mm x2 convertor and a full set of extension tubes.

I would like to get my hands on the 90mm Macro though as I feel it'll be a good replacement. (The 120mm is very close for framing but I'd like 2. .
I'd also like the 28-25mm D-FA as well but they are something I can't afford.

I'd email the UK rep to ask but I don't know who to contact. There's a big Iceland trip potentially happening (full circuit of the Island) and I'd like to have those lenses there.

Thanks!  How do you find the Pentax lenses wide open? Are they as good as the Hasselblad lenses wide open?

[Paul2660]

https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/upgrade-your-phase-one-df-to-a-df

This was also included in one of our newsletters.

What is interesting to me is how a proactive email was not sent out. I had made several attempts to see is such an upgrade when the DF+ was announced.   If it was I may have missed it.

Oh well I missed it for sure.

Paul

[bcooter]

Edumund,

I always tell crew to never assume without facts.   

I'm in a good mood, had a great day shooting in 75F weather, with people I like, turned a profit and produced nice imagery.

Actually it's started out as a very good year, but what does that have to do with anything?

I was just responding to a silly attempt of talking down Hasselblad exec salaries, marketing costs and now the negatives of a DF+ in a thread about a Pentax.

They really have nothing to do with each other, unless your privileged to the facts.

It's really not personal and honestly when it gets that way I just want to hit the bye button.

You know there is a saying, trying to knock someone or something down doesn't make you taller.

IMO

BC

[Joe Towner]

It's uploading now, but here's an ISO test batch if someone wants to dig in further:  https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p6t3qx0t39p8mvv/AAA4PcwDSj2MNKiOpr13H5f-a?dl=0

It's with the Z, mirror locked up, with the 400/5.6 (a legacy lens) at f/8 going from ISO100 to ISO 204k shooting part of the Space Needle here in Seattle at night.  I got a little out of order with the shots, but all the metadata is there.

The new DFA lenses are crazy sharp wide open straight out of the box.  The -FA lenses need a little microadjustment love to be perfect with AF, but there are existing threads on 645Z glass up here.

[Gel]

Joe, how do you find the 400? I've been fixing my sights on the 300 F4 FA for astro.

[eronald]

I'm not knocking Hassy - just stating what I consider obvious as an engineer - the camera production costs are similar, and if they aren't they should be -the cheaper Pentax is a solid body with the same sensor-  therefore a 3x price difference between the Pentax and the Hassy 50C is probably due to marketing/channel issues.

And I can evaluate marketing costs a bit too, by the fact that I was a professional computer journalist for many years. And then, I do go to photo shows occasionally, and have talked to two Hassy CEOs, one of whom I interviewed formally, I think. In spite of *your* beliefs that their huge show booths eg. Photokina are free, that the huge teams they move around are free, and that the V magazine is produced for free, I think all of this costs money. I did talk to the people who did V for them, who incidentally at the time I think were also doing the Leica magazine.  Sorry not to base my opinions on pure speculation.

What Hassy do exceptionally well is they run a decent channel operation with reps and in-country minor repairs presence in Germany and France and England, probably other european countries, and resell warrantied used equipment into the channel which lowers the entry price. Obviously, there is a greater safety net for photographers and rental houses when they can quickly source a part or get a minor repair done locally on the day. In Paris there's also an independent repair shop sited in the same building. They can make up customer cables and other stuff.

Pentax could learn about the channel presence and service facilities from Hassy - I don't think they would really profit from copying the model parades.

Edmund

Edumund,

I'm in a good mood, had a great day shooting in 75F weather, with people I like, turned a profit and produced nice imagery.

I was just responding to a silly attempt of talking down Hasselblad exec salaries, marketing costs and now the negatives of a DF+ in a thread about a Pentax.

They really have nothing to do with each other, unless your privileged to the facts.

It's really not personal and honestly when it gets that way I just want to hit the bye button.

You know there is a saying, trying to knock someone or something down doesn't make you taller.

IMO

BC

[Gel]

Thanks!  How do you find the Pentax lenses wide open? Are they as good as the Hasselblad lenses wide open?

I'd say just as good. I can't tell a difference at least, with maximum aperture shooting the biggest differentiators are if you hit focus or not and if the bokeh is attractive.

Colour, contrast and imagery is excellent with the Pentax glass and there's usually very little vignetting. I also haven't felt the need to adjust the in camera lens setting for focus.

The 150mm as stated has purple fringing in the blown out of focus highlights. I heard the 200 is worse. But lightroom fixes that.

I'd say that with regards Hasselblad and Phase, the costs saved smooth over any niggles you could have. But in defense of them, I'm not Hasselblad and Phase's intended market. There's nothing wrong with them, it's just that Pentax have created a camera intended for my needs.

[mi-fu]

Thanks for the review!! It's very detailed. I enjoyed reading it a lot.

I have a 645Z. The biggest complaint I have, as you and ndevlin have suggested, is the color profile of lightroom. Apart from that, the 645Z is really a joy to use.

May I ask: Do you have any experience with high-speed sync with the Pentax flash? I'm considering buying a flash (speedlite) for it. Does the Pentax TTL system make it worthwhile?

Thanks!

[mikeSF_]

Hi everyone, for any that are interested I just published a series of posts on the Pentax 645z.

It isn't hugely technical but covers weddings and portraiture, CCD vs CMOS, Dynamic range, Image quality, Weatherproofing and the Flash solutions.
If after reading you want to know anything else I've otherwise missed please ask away in the comments.

http://chrisgilesphotography.com/blog/pentax-645z-review-pt1-the-journey/

nicely written review, Gel, and you had me at, "The Pentax 645z camera has, hand on heart, the best image quality I have ever seen on any format, with any sensor, ever..."

ok, time to start saving up.

[Gel]

Thanks for the review!! It's very detailed. I enjoyed reading it a lot.

I have a 645Z. The biggest complaint I have, as you and ndevlin have suggested, is the color profile of lightroom. Apart from that, the 645Z is really a joy to use.

May I ask: Do you have any experience with high-speed sync with the Pentax flash? I'm considering buying a flash (speedlite) for it. Does the Pentax TTL system make it worthwhile?

Thanks!

Hi!

I have HSS on the 540FGZ, but haven't used it yet. I'll be honest I don't use it on the Canon. If I had more of the same flashes I'd put 4 together and see if you can get HSS via wireless.

I know that as soon as you go above the sync limit with any HSS the power drops right down. I got around that by sticking 4 x Canon 600's together and I had roughly the equivalent of a full single flash available to me.

I would certainly buy the Mk1 540FGZ, but then consider using the Cactus V6 and a flash of choice for the supported V6 system. I think you can stick a £100 flash on a V6 and control it manually so whilst I don't like Yonguo for their reliability they might be a brand worth looking into.

[Gel]

Thanks Mike

[Joe Towner]

While I like the 400mm, I think for what I shoot the 300/4 would be better.  Honestly, for astro I'd try to find a long 67 lens instead - the weight of the 400 is so small it's almost an afterthought.  While it has a collar for a tripod mount, I'm hard pressed for a situation where the lens, even with hood attached at the far end is counterbalanced.

P-TTL & HSS works pretty damn good - the 540FGZ I used worked out amazingly for a family get together, indoors with minimal light.  The fact you can get faster than 1/125th sync is huge, though I had an issue with a model whom was more on the pasty white side.

[mi-fu]

Hi!

I have HSS on the 540FGZ, but haven't used it yet. I'll be honest I don't use it on the Canon. If I had more of the same flashes I'd put 4 together and see if you can get HSS via wireless.

I know that as soon as you go above the sync limit with any HSS the power drops right down. I got around that by sticking 4 x Canon 600's together and I had roughly the equivalent of a full single flash available to me.

I would certainly buy the Mk1 540FGZ, but then consider using the Cactus V6 and a flash of choice for the supported V6 system. I think you can stick a £100 flash on a V6 and control it manually so whilst I don't like Yonguo for their reliability they might be a brand worth looking into.

thanks for the reply!
wow. i haven't thought about cactus v6!!  because i was using pocket wizard and nikon speedlites, i didn't know there is such a cross-platform product!

thanks for pointing a new direction to me!!

[mi-fu]

Chris,

Terrific review. I have a pretty good sense of how much work these are to write ( ), so thank you so much for taking the time. It's always nice to see results and impressions from real working pros.

Two things: if you find yourself hitting min focusing distance and are frustrated - invested in set of the extension tubes. I got the triple-set on eBay for under $200.  The smallest in particular is very useful with the 150.  No AF, mind you..

As re: profiles.  You're absolutely right that Adobe Standard is a dogshit profile.  I have had better luck with the Huelight profiles and even the embedded.  Adobe Std v.2 is better.  Not sure if that's widely available yet or will be in an update. 

What profiles are you using for skintones in studio?

- N.

Hi Nick,
I tried a bit of searching on the adobe v2 profile, but in vain. Do you know where I can download it?

Thanks!!!!

J