Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Sports Illustrated removes all photographers from staff  (Read 10226 times)

Joe Towner

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1365
Re: Sports Illustrated removes all photographers from staff
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2015, 01:55:15 pm »

USA Today Sports has taken over the national sports photography gigs, selling the same 5 images to everyone.  It's a solid business model for everyone but the photographer.  It saddens me that photography has been turned into a commodity - where original, unique perspectives are not created.

I hope that SI figures out how to do long form storytelling using different photographers -  I see it as the only method to keep pulling a paying audience.  That and they may want to investigate going to larger photos on their layout, as folks can see plenty of small photos online, but some photos command a larger presence.
Logged
t: @PNWMF

AlterEgo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1995
Re: Sports Illustrated removes all photographers from staff
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2015, 01:57:22 pm »

Except tax rules that do not allow you to have such control over your contractors, otherwise they'll consider you are fraudulently reclassifying your employees as independent contractors.

Slobodan, no - tax rules do not allow you to contol the work (for example equipment used, etc), but they allow to own the result of the work (= images)... do not mix things here.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 02:00:29 pm by AlterEgo »
Logged

AlterEgo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1995
Re: Sports Illustrated removes all photographers from staff
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2015, 01:59:56 pm »

It saddens me that photography has been turned into a commodity - where original, unique perspectives are not created.
why do you mix creation of "original, unique perspectives" with being a W2 employee ? please by all means go and create...  if your creations are worthy then you earn.
Logged

jjj

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4728
    • http://www.futtfuttfuttphotography.com
Re: Sports Illustrated removes all photographers from staff
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2015, 02:19:24 pm »

Slobodan, no - tax rules do not allow you to contol the work (for example equipment used, etc), but they allow to own the result of the work (= images)... do not mix things here.
You'd also have to be working exclusively for just that company too.
In the UK, IT peeps often try do the opposite. They say they are freelancers/limited companies to gain tax advantages, but in reality only work full time for one company
Logged
Tradition is the Backbone of the Spinele

Joe Towner

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1365
Re: Sports Illustrated removes all photographers from staff
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2015, 03:10:32 pm »

why do you mix creation of "original, unique perspectives" with being a W2 employee ? please by all means go and create...  if your creations are worthy then you earn.

Short version? Because access is tightly controlled in professional sporting events, and having the backing of a larger news org like SI takes care of access one otherwise won't get.
Logged
t: @PNWMF

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18090
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Sports Illustrated removes all photographers from staff
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2015, 03:32:53 pm »

Slobodan, no - tax rules do not allow you to contol the work (for example equipment used, etc), but they allow to own the result of the work (= images)... do not mix things here.

The determination that IRS does is a complex one and depends on at least three major categories of factors, the composition of  which also varies from case to case. Exclusivity would be simply one of the factors. It also depends how that exclusivity is formulated. If the contract says, for instance "Go there and there and shoot the event exclusively for SI," than it stands a higher chance (but not necessarily) to be classified as "employee." If it says "We need images from such and such event, and you are free to submit your images to others as well, but if you do submit them to us, we want exclusive rights to use them," than it is more likely (but not necessarily) to be considered as independent contractor.

Go Go

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 172
    • New York Editorial Photographer
Re: Sports Illustrated removes all photographers from staff
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2015, 09:44:07 am »

This story is really more about the recent spit of the parent company Time Warner.

Time inc is now operating its publishing business on its own, concessions have to be made.

It's that simple.

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6642
    • My gallery on Instagram
Re: Sports Illustrated removes all photographers from staff
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2015, 09:55:54 am »

This story is really more about the recent spit of the parent company Time Warner.

Time inc is now operating its publishing business on its own, concessions have to be made.

It's that simple.

If their main trade is selling images to the public - why are they throwing out *all* photographers?
Staff reductions would make sense, but firing everybody? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Edmund
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

Dshelly

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 82
    • Darryl Shelly Photography
Re: Sports Illustrated removes all photographers from staff
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2015, 11:00:43 am »

There's a word in LA (and other cities, I gather) for many workers hired by entertainment and other companies: perma-lancers. Companies hire on permanent staff under the guise of being just temporary positions, but without the obligation of providing benefits, and with the understanding that during a slowdown in business, you're not fired – just let go until business picks up again. I know people who've been perm-lancing for years.
Logged

AlterEgo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1995
Re: Sports Illustrated removes all photographers from staff
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2015, 01:12:44 pm »

If the contract says, for instance "Go there and there and shoot the event exclusively for SI," than it stands a higher chance (but not necessarily) to be classified as "employee."

no it doesn't, Slobodan... like it does not make somebody fixing your roof your employee if you direct the dude to go to a specific location and fix specific roof (that roof will belong to you, provided that you pay and they will be no liens then).

Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18090
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Sports Illustrated removes all photographers from staff
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2015, 04:09:49 pm »

no it doesn't, Slobodan... like it does not make somebody fixing your roof your employee if you direct the dude to go to a specific location and fix specific roof (that roof will belong to you, provided that you pay and they will be no liens then).

Wrong example, AlterEgo. To make it similar, let's say that I have 100 roofs around town (all belong to me) and I keep sending the same contractor to repair it, month  after month, year after year, specifically saying that he has to do it exclusively for me, i.e., that he can not engage in roof repair for anyone else. That example stands a higher chance (but not necessarily) to be classified as "employee." Please note that the use of "higher chance" and  "not necessarily," as I already explained that IRS determination depends on a multitude of factors.

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Sports Illustrated removes all photographers from staff
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2015, 10:47:47 pm »

What if a real estate company uses you exclusively to photograph 100 houses for sale like real estate owner who hires a roof company exclusively to service 100 roofs of his buildings.  As long as you;re providing your own tools or cameras, own schedule, you'd be considered an independent contractor even of you're shooting exclusively for that agent or hiring a roof repair company. Of course, if SI tries to limit your work to only themselves,  something they won't do, then there could be a problem.  I'm sure SI will draw up contracts very carefully to make sure the IRS cannot interpret independent contractors as employees.

AlterEgo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1995
Re: Sports Illustrated removes all photographers from staff
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2015, 02:20:13 pm »

Wrong example, AlterEgo. To make it similar, let's say that I have 100 roofs around town (all belong to me) and I keep sending the same contractor to repair it, month  after month, year after year, specifically saying that he has to do it exclusively for me, i.e., that he can not engage in roof repair for anyone else.

you mix the ownership of results (photos) from a specific assignment or several w/ prohibiting contractor to work elsewhere/for anybody else on different assignments, Slobodan... as prev. poster noted SI is not some dude w/o clue how to spell things in their paperwork... they can own the results (photos) when they contract a photog to cover a specific event, but they do not "hire" him exclusively forever prohibiting him to cover __other__ events for __other__ clients (for example).
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18090
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Sports Illustrated removes all photographers from staff
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2015, 02:41:06 pm »

... SI is not some dude w/o clue how to spell things in their paperwork... they can own the results (photos) when they contract a photog to cover a specific event, but they do not "hire" him exclusively forever prohibiting him to cover __other__ events for __other__ clients (for example).

Which is what I said in post #25 above:

Quote
It also depends how that exclusivity is formulated.

As for "smartness" of SI in contract formulating, that remains to be seen. There are many, many companies that tried to outsmart IRS or SEC, not always successfully (remember Enron?).  It is like IRS audit of your tax returns. You might cheat on your tax returns for years and never get audited and caught, or you might do it once and get immediately caught.

The first red flag is if the six are fired and immediately hired back next day as contractors. Yes, it happens in many other cases, and yes many companies might get away with it for years, just like you can cheat on your tax return and not get caught for years. However, companies like SI are also highly visible.

However, let's assume that the new SI contract is careful about exclusivity. At some point, some or all) of the original six will get a different gig and gradually drift away. Which will leave SI to compete for images in the open market. As a consequence, SI will lose the edge they had in the past, i.e., well trained and motivated team, the rest could only look up to. They were successful as they had the best equipment, best access, best photographers, resulting in unique shots. I am not a sport fan, but I am assuming that is the reason (uniqueness and high quality) that attracted their readers. Once they start using crowd-sourced shots, or sharing shots from Getty Images etc., that fans can see everywhere else, their competitive edge is lost.



Ken R

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 849
Re: Sports Illustrated removes all photographers from staff
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2015, 08:59:24 am »

Some people do not even want to pay for cheap stock images. It's the attitude that hey if it's online its free. These people even left the watermark and everything. They didn't care.

Logged

petermfiore

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2705
    • Peter Fiore Fine Art
Re: Sports Illustrated removes all photographers from staff
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2015, 09:18:54 am »

Some people do not even want to pay for cheap stock images. It's the attitude that hey if it's online its free. These people even left the watermark and everything. They didn't care.


Nice!!!!!


Peter

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6642
    • My gallery on Instagram
Re: Sports Illustrated removes all photographers from staff
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2015, 09:22:08 am »

So y'all assume that the fired individuals have simply been moved into a more distant orbit around the mothership?

Edmund
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

AlterEgo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1995
Re: Sports Illustrated removes all photographers from staff
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2015, 10:01:57 am »

some point, some or all) of the original six will get a different gig and gradually drift away.

and some other well trained individuals will drift closer... there are so many clients and so many photogs when you set a certain bar what the pictures shall be - the system will find the balance.

Logged

AlterEgo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1995
Re: Sports Illustrated removes all photographers from staff
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2015, 10:05:52 am »

As for "smartness" of SI in contract formulating, that remains to be seen. There are many, many companies that tried to outsmart IRS or SEC, not always successfully (remember Enron?).

what SEC and Enron has to do with replacing W2s with subcontractors ? and not even simple 1099s using their SSN#, but I'd assume fully incorporated folks

The first red flag is if the six are fired and immediately hired back next day as contractors.

who says next day ? and note - I doubt they will do simple 1099...

PS: in our company (as employer) we have a rule - we switch W2 to 1099/C2C or vice versa (if they want - we don't care for as long as the cost to us is the same) only once new years starts (Dec 31/Jan1) __or__ on a different assignment (different client of ours/different physical location) - so that is how SI probably did it to avoid your "next day" issue ... doing business since 1986 and we are public company... no issues with IRS.... our max employment was ~2000 people around 1998/1999 - so were not that small for IRS not to notice us.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 10:16:59 am by AlterEgo »
Logged

Iluvmycam

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 533
Re: Sports Illustrated removes all photographers from staff
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2015, 11:50:17 am »

Perhaps? Or could it be the ever growing (out of control) cost of doing business. Pay, Medical, 401K's etc.........you get the idea. Freelance solves all...Maybe?
Nothing new here, just a very large profile example.

Peter

That is the trend. USPS only hires part timers for years now. No benefits. You have a zillion freelancers pushing the button.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up