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Author Topic: Digitar vs Super Angulon XL  (Read 4175 times)

svedosh

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Digitar vs Super Angulon XL
« on: January 17, 2015, 07:03:41 am »

I'm transitioning from 4x5 to digital MF. By this time next month I will have a Phase One P65+. I'm wondering how many of my LF lenses can I continue to use I hear that at longer focal lengths the resolution issue isn't that big a deal, but that it's huge with short lenses. The P65 has a nearly full 645 format sensor, so I hope that it will be forgiving if I shoot with analog lenses.

I have a 47mm Super Angulon XL that has been great for interiors in 4x5. If it were your shoot, would you replace it with the 47mm digitar? Less coverage but more resolution. (I've surrendered to the inevitable and gotten the SK 35mm digitar for my interiors.) I plan to continue to shoot with the 65 and 90 Grandagons. Am I making a mistake? I'd rather hear some seasoned judgements than rent the digital equivalents for a shoot-out.
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DanielStone

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Re: Digitar vs Super Angulon XL
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2015, 12:20:23 pm »

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Doug Peterson

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Re: Digitar vs Super Angulon XL
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2015, 12:58:33 pm »

As a general rule of thumb:
- longer analog lenses are more likely to perform up to your expectations
- wider analog lenses are less likely to perform up to your expectations

Increased chromatic aberration and corner sharpness are the areas you're most likely to be disappointed.

Beyond that a lot depends on the specific lens, not just what model but also which specific copy. Analog sample variation is pretty high, presumably both because their manufacturing tolerances were not as tight, and they are older and therefore more likely to have been nudged/banged/worn out of perfect alignment before making it into your hands.

RomanN.

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Re: Digitar vs Super Angulon XL
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2015, 04:32:36 pm »

indeed there are more problems in digital photography at wider lenses than at normal or longer lenses. The same issue regards to large format lenses or large format lenses that are recommended for digital use and named Digitar or Apo Sironar Digital.
But the general division in digital and analoge lenses are simply wrong. here plays advertisement a big point.
Schneider Kreuznach use till today the same lens designs for their so called Apo digitars as they have done in the so called analoge large format times. The same issue at Rodenstock Apo Sironar Digital Line- accept the HR retrofocus line- thats fullly other stuff.
So when we take a look the analoge large format photography the last achievements were making bigger image circle lenses (till 120°) at still very good image quality. This allows extreme wide lenses as 47 xl for 4x5 or lenses with extremely big movements like 72 or 90 xl.
But with digital backs we get very little formats with much more resolution power. The big image circles of 120° designs are simply too big for the digital backs. Also the working aperture at 22 is too small, because we need larger aperture to achieve higher resolution. So Schneider used the older 100° or 105° Biogon Design for their so called digital lenses ( wide lenses!): they have still a big image circle, but also better performance at larger apertures. The older 8 elements 105° Super Angulon 47 mm that were made for 6x9 cm Film were taken and achieved much better sharpness as the 120 ° 8 elements XL design. This 6x9 lens is named later Digitar or Apo Digitar is still in production. If you buy a later Super angulon 47 mm or nowadays Apo digitar 47 mm you will see that these both lenses are simply the same lens, without differences. They will perform in the same way.
These Biogon/Super Angulon designs have all  the same behavior, no matter if 35, 43, 47 or other. Their whole image circles are not usable with digital backs. Why? this is a general digital Problem: digital chips cant give sharp results when the light dont fall strait on it- so too diagonal. At bigger movements the corners will became softer till absolutely not usable. This is no problem with Film where diagonal falling light is not problematic.
So you will see an improvement at sharpness and contrast at using your Phase one 65 with digitar 47/super angulon 47 mm
 compared with super angulon XL.
When you would use Digaron W 50 mm the sharpness and resolution will be better at larger apertures like 8-11 and the sharpness will be perfect till the end of the image circle- so full usable, but not so big ( 90 mm) as at schneider 47 ( in theory about 137 mm or so). Digaron HR lenses, S and W, are different design lenses, high corrected retrofocus lenses, but with smaller image circles.
to 65 mm , 90 grandagons: I made very good experiences with grandagon 65 mm. These lens is optimazed for aperture 16 and  therefore good for using with digi backs. Very sharp. I never use 90 mm lens but 105 mm Apo Sironar N. As all 6x9 cm lenses this lens is full usable for digital use- relabeled as Apo sironar digital cost much more. Also all Apo Sironar S lenses are great long lenses for digital use: they are also relabeled as Digital lenses.
I would say: make your own experiences and you will find the right lenses at seeing the pro and contra and making you free of advertisement.
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svedosh

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Re: Digitar vs Super Angulon XL
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2015, 06:39:40 am »

Thank you, that is a very helpful analysis.
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