Doors and Windows

[Ray]

The doors are fine, Kevin, but you've blown the windows. Did you deliberately present a blown sky for some particular effect you had in mind?

Considering the expense and sophistication of the equipment used, a Phase One IQ180, the blown sky surely couldn't have been due to the limitations of the camera. 

Did you think that the color blue, and a bit of solid green in the hills, would have spoilt the color balance, perhaps? 

[michael]

Really?

I was there. The sky was a textureless light grey due to clouds. It is not blown.

I find the rest of the comment incomprehensible, verging on fatuous.

Michael

[ndevlin]

For Phase One's $30,000 mark-up, I expect their backs to resolve detail and tone whether it's there or not.  Hardly an unreasonable demand. Otherwise what's the point?

- N.

[Ray]

Really?

I was there. The sky was a textureless light grey due to clouds. It is not blown.

It's 255, 255, 255 on my monitor in Photoshop. That's not grey.

I find the rest of the comment incomprehensible, verging on fatuous.

I was referring indirectly to some of your featured articles from Alain Briot on groups of matching colors. Let's be rational now, Michael. 

[michael]

Fine. But if they are not there to begin with, what then? Paint them in?

Michael

[stamper]

Kevin seems to have become a target for some of the members? Considering the time and work he contributes to the site, I think the offenders should take a step back and think again.

[michael]

"It's 255, 255, 255 on my monitor in Photoshop. That's not grey."

And since when did how things appear on "your" monitor have anything to do with reality?

You are looking at a highly compressed 8 bit JPG, optimized for web display. At that size the alien mothership could be hovering over the distant mountain and you'd never see it.

The point is that on that day nature served up a featureless sky. 0-0-0 or 250-250-250 makes little difference. In my view raising this discussion is nothing more than a quibble.

Michael

[michael]

Kevin seems to have become a target for some of the members? Considering the time and work he contributes to the site, I think the offenders should take a step back and think again.

I think part of the problem is that Kevin is very reasonable and polite. People like that are sometimes seen as targets.

I on the other hand will piss on anyone that gets out of line; always have and always will. 

[Ray]

"It's 255, 255, 255 on my monitor in Photoshop. That's not grey."

And since when did how things appear on "your" monitor have anything to do with reality?

You are looking at a highly compressed 8 bit JPG, optimized for web display. At that size the alien mothership could be hovering over the distant mountain and you'd never see it.

The point is that on that day nature served up a featureless sky. 0-0-0 or 250-250-250 makes little difference. In my view raising this discussion is nothing more than a quibble.

Michael

Well, I must say that I'm rather amazed at the response to my initial comment. Let me first assert that I have no agenda to attack Kevin. I'm merely expressing a genuine and honest impression of his recent photo. Anyone who's familiar with my many posts on this site would realize that I'm not into ad hominem attacks.

The point is that on that day nature served up a featureless sky. 0-0-0 or 250-250-250 makes little difference. In my view raising this discussion is nothing more than a quibble.

Michael, I would say that from the point of view of the average person, most of the discussions on LL are of the nature of quibbles. Is one lens slightly sharper than another? Does one camera produce slightly less noise than another, at the same ISO? etc. etc.

Surely, all of us on LL are concerned with achieving the best results possible, both technically and artistically.

If Kevin's full image, in its original size and color profile, shows a truly grey sky with nicely contrasting greenery on the hill (I find grey skies and green foliage a very attractive match), then I apologize.

Perhaps it's time for a feature article on your site explaining how to process images for display on the internet that retain the essential features of tonality, contrast and color that are apparent on the full scale image.

[Hans Kruse]

The doors are fine, Kevin, but you've blown the windows. Did you deliberately present a blown sky for some particular effect you had in mind?

Considering the expense and sophistication of the equipment used, a Phase One IQ180, the blown sky surely couldn't have been due to the limitations of the camera. 

Did you think that the color blue, and a bit of solid green in the hills, would have spoilt the color balance, perhaps? 

I think the image works well exactly by not having a blue sky or much color seen through the window. In the jpg the sky is pure white, however this says nothing about what the RAW file was like. The RAW could contain detail that is clipped in pp by choice. Any camera could expose the sky through the window so it would not be clipped. Personally I prefer the picture as is and it is not overprocessed.

[Ray]

In the jpg the sky is pure white, however this says nothing about what the RAW file was like.

Hans, how do you know it's not overexposed if what you see in the jpeg is pure white? I can only comment on what I see. Whenever I send email jpeg attachment to friends, I do my best to ensure there are no 'visually' blown highlights in the down-sampled, sRGB image, if the original full image doesn't have any blown highlights.

[Hans Kruse]

Hans, how do you know it's not overexposed if what you see in the jpeg is pure white? I can only comment on what I see. Whenever I send email jpeg attachment to friends, I do my best to ensure there are no 'visually' blown highlights in the down-sampled, sRGB image, if the original full image doesn't have any blown highlights.

As I said, you don't know of the RAW file is blown or not. The JPG says nothing about that. Btw. I usually also make sure to avoid blown out areas, if they matter, in capture. Also in pp I will do the same. But in this case I felt that no detail was better than if there had been detail.

[bjanes]

As I said, you don't know of the RAW file is blown or not. The JPG says nothing about that. Btw. I usually also make sure to avoid blown out areas, if they matter, in capture. Also in pp I will do the same. But in this case I felt that no detail was better than if there had been detail.

IMHO, it does not matter if the window highlights are clipped or not. This is a case where exposing for the mid-tones makes sense. Let the featureless highlights blow out if necessary. In post, one can tone map them where ever one wants. I would map them to white so as to have a full range image. If one looks at the JPEG and excludes the window, the histogram appears quite reasonable.

Regards,

Bill

[Colorado David]

Kevin can't win. If he had done something in post to put detail in the window, he'd have been taken to task for Raberizing. He has taken the high road by not responding.

[LesPalenik]

White or gray sky is not important.
What this picture needs is a pair of kangaroos hopping up the hill. Ideally with red scarfs around their necks (something like 255, 183, 213).

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... I on the other hand will piss on anyone that gets out of line; always have and always will. 

Luckily, you are not alone ;-)

[Phinius]

Boy, some folks got up on the wrong side of the bed today. Kevin presents a lot of his work. Criticizing, if you can call it that, a blank sky is perfectly reasonable. If that constitutes a personal attack there must a back story I'm unaware of. Besides, Kevin can "defend" himself,but isn't doing so I would note.

[Hans Kruse]

IMHO, it does not matter if the window highlights are clipped or not. This is a case where exposing for the mid-tones makes sense. Let the featureless highlights blow out if necessary. In post, one can tone map them where ever one wants. I would map them to white so as to have a full range image. If one looks at the JPEG and excludes the window, the histogram appears quite reasonable.

Regards,

Bill

You express more or less what I intended to say

[Telecaster]

I personally like the sky…it gives an otherwise midrange-heavy scene some highlight content. It also draws my eye nicely through the door and then the window. Thumbs up.

-Dave-

[michael]

Kevin can "defend" himself,but isn't doing so I would note.

That's not a safe assumption. Kevin has been out of town on family business. Never presume.

Michael