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Author Topic: New to canvas - recommendations please  (Read 2448 times)

pcgpcg

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New to canvas - recommendations please
« on: January 06, 2015, 08:22:41 pm »

I’m asking for recommendations for canvas.  I have an iPF6400 and I’ve only printed on 100% rag paper so far.  I’d like to find a high quality (no OBAs, acid-free, etc.) canvas that does not have that traditional canvas texture.  Does anyone have an opinion on Canon Artistic Satin or Matte canvas? Anything you like better?

My goal is not to try to make a photo look like a painting; I want to be able to display photos without reflective glass or acrylic.  I know that canvas should be laminated before it is stretched so I would certainly be grateful for suggestions on products you’re happy with.  I am looking for a process that is affordable for a one-man operation, an aqueous solution that can be applied by hand or a film that can be applied by hand or by some kind of roller that doesn’t cost multiple thousands of dollars.

Thank you.
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Landscapes

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Re: New to canvas - recommendations please
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2015, 11:33:04 pm »

I used to use a Canon canvas before and the old stuff I have now is completely unusable because the coating just flakes off... no amount of varnish will prevent cracking.

I have used Epson Exhibition Canvas Matte quite extensively, but the seeds and some imperfections and price have made me look further.  I am now using Simply Elegant Matte Canvas.  The everyday version of this canvas is nice too, but quite thin.  Both of these have the traditional texture though.  There have been recent posts about looking for a canvas with a tight weave, so look them up.

In terms of coating, spraying is the easiest, but you will for sure need a space to do it in, or at least line the bathtub walls with plastic or something.  I spray it with the Wagnar Spray Gun, $100, and it works really well.  The coating is from Breathing Color and its called Timeless.  I mix 20% gloss with 80% matte and get a nice flat finish, but you can of course mix in different proportions to taste.  There is a learning curve for sure, but its fairly easy.  Some guys do roll it on, but so many issues with dust and flaking off of the ink and of course more wastage of the product in the roller leave this a non-option for me.
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disneytoy

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Re: New to canvas - recommendations please
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2015, 12:22:37 am »

I really like the Epson Exhibition Canvas Matte. Not too expensive and renders colors nicely. comes in Natural and white. resilient in handling.
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bill t.

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Re: New to canvas - recommendations please
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2015, 12:42:18 am »

Sounds like you will be rolling coatings on your canvas, rather than applying with an HVLP system.  Whatever canvas you decide to look at, be sure to test a sample for it's rolling characteristics.  

With the Canon inks, for certain media there is a tendency for the ink layer to smear during rolling.  Sorry, I rarely use canvas these days so I can't make specific recommendations, but for sure I know that Hahnemuehle Photo Canvas 320 GSM has excellent rolling characteristics.  

For a while I used textured fine art paper as canvas substitute to get around the all too common QC issues one sees with canvases.  Epson Cold Press Natural and also Hot Press Bright roll very well if you don't mind dealing with very curly prints after rolling.  BC Pura Velvet also rolls very well, with minimal curling, and produces great prints both coated and uncoated.  Of course you can't stretch fine art paper, but you can mount it and even gallery-wrap it around the edges of a Gatorfoam panel if you are patient, long suffering, and technically adept.

Don't know what to recommend for OBA free canvas, as most canvases have considerable OBA content.  There's BC Lyve of course, which in spite of a very repetitive surface texture makes really solid looking prints.  Simply Elegant Matte Canvas has a more randomized texture, that unfortunately kills detail pretty badly, so you wouldn't want to use that if sharpness is important to your images.  For relatively fine detail Fredrix 777 and Hahnemuehle Photo Canvas 320 are very satisfactory because of their fine weaves.  But both score high on the OBA thing, and Fredrix 777 has the smallest gamut and worst QC issues of any canvas I have ever used, although it can produce very nice looking landscape prints for most subjects.

By far the easiest coating to apply is Glamour II, and it is also the cheapest because it ships in concentrated form.  Super good leveling characteristics, it's just very well behaved compared to anything else out there.  It has no UV protection, which is good for OBA canvases because it lets them fluoresce from UV in the ambient light, but it offers less long term  fade protection.  I'll let others comment on Timeless and Clearshield, both of which have UV protection but are harder to apply well.  Bottom line...if you are using OBA media, don't use a UV protective coating, and vice versa.

Be aware that most coatings including Glamour II have a smell that can chase you out of any room where they are drying.  You don't notice it too much at first, but having more than 2 or 3 square feet of wet surface exposed in a typical room sort of wears you down.  Be sure you coat in a well ventilated room, or in winter a room that is isolated from the rest of the house with a window that can be briefly opened once in a while.  And speaking of winter, GII will apply well down to at least 48F, provided the humidity is no more than about 35%.  On sunny days I have more than once sprayed GII while standing on snow, which is another story.

As for making your photos look like paintings, I'm not sure that using canvas is a needful thing.  The "painting look" has more to do with tonality and the way painters distribute their density "values" in a way that usually emphasizes medium to light tones, whereas photographers usually emphasizes a wider range of tones.  Many photographers are still hung up on the "old masters" look of centuries past where much detail wallows around in murky dark tones.  For a quite a while modern painting has tended to emphasized much brighter values.  OK, to keep it short, print open, de-emphasize fine detail, and don't let your highlights get too bright.  There, I said it.  It's also interesting that a lot of painters completely obliterate any hint of canvas texture with both gesso primer and heavy paint application.  Go look at some paintings and note how many actually reveal canvas texture.  And the texture of the canvases painters use is much more organic looking than the soul-of-a-machine, stretch-friendly texture we see on most inkjet canvases.

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pcgpcg

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Re: New to canvas - recommendations please
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2015, 10:56:08 am »

Thank you all for taking the time to share your thoughts.  Very helpful!
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PeterAit

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Re: New to canvas - recommendations please
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2015, 11:48:11 am »

I use Breathing Color Lyve coated with their own varnish and have had no problems, although the oldest of my canvas prints is only 2 years old. But, there's no reason you cannot display paper prints without glass over them. Yes, they are more fragile than canvas, but unless your display is in the hallway of a grammar school, how likely are they to be poked and prodded? And remember, it's just a print, you can easily make another!

At a recent show, someone commented on how rich and vibrant my photos looked compared to the previous photo show in that space. My "secret" was no glazing, which meant no reflections and no distraction from the images.

For sales, I offer the choice of unglazed, acrylic, or glass, and customers choose. For unglazed prints I use a coating of PrintShield to give some added resistance to environmental insults.
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Justan

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Re: New to canvas - recommendations please
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2015, 12:00:17 pm »

Quote
I’m asking for recommendations for canvas.  I have an iPF6400 and I’ve only printed on 100% rag paper so far.  I’d like to find a high quality (no OBAs, acid-free, etc.) canvas that does not have that traditional canvas texture.  Does anyone have an opinion on Canon Artistic Satin or Matte canvas? Anything you like better?

I’ve used Hahnemuhle Monet canvas with great results. It is a very high quality media and I hand roll Glamour ii over the top and then mount it to a rigid substrate. Lexjet Sunset matte produces nicer results (imo) at a substantially lower cost, but it does contain OBAs.

« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 12:59:36 pm by Justan »
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John V.

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Re: New to canvas - recommendations please
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2015, 03:26:34 pm »

Someone really should make a simple site dedicated to showing the surface textures of different print media. It would make print life so much easier. I know I've wished there was one out there at times... Digging around on google images/wherever gets old, and most sellers just use stock photos.

...

heh, now that I think about this more...

I'd actually be willing to invest some effort into this idea if anyone is interested (assuming a site like this doesn't exist already/it's seen as not a good idea). I have enough web development experience to make a nice simple site that could show user submitted photos of different print medias, info, maybe even a rating/comments system...
« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 06:38:08 pm by John Drew »
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: New to canvas - recommendations please
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2015, 04:40:44 pm »

I could see it being great here, except I wish we had some hierarchy inside the Printing thread itself. Maybe Epson/Caon/HP, then Support for each brand. a section for All Papers substrates & mounting/finishes, and a section for inks.
That should do for the core of organizing posts. There are so many repeated posts. What happens is we reinvent the wheel, and forget history. That's how we don't move forward.
I know using the search would help some, but often doesn't come up helpful when its all under one heading. I think this site has gained so many viewers over the years in printing that it deserves more attention.
Just my thoughts. I am thinking for new users, more so than myself.
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bill t.

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Re: New to canvas - recommendations please
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2015, 05:20:02 pm »

The problem with not constantly re-inventing the wheel is that the inkjet printing is constantly redefining itself.  There is a considerable amount of slipstream modifications of media and gear that slowly erodes the value of old information.

Edit: and those of who have been doing this for a while sometimes get new ideas about how to deal with old issues, often in light of discussions and technical innovations that occur after the previous discussions.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 05:25:45 pm by bill t. »
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: New to canvas - recommendations please
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2015, 05:26:53 pm »

That is a matter of participation, not existing information
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