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Author Topic: gloss optimizer after printing?  (Read 3505 times)

mstevensphoto

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gloss optimizer after printing?
« on: January 06, 2015, 03:47:46 pm »

Hi folks, I've got a canon ipf8400 so no gloss optimizer for me in the printer. lately I'm doing a lot of high key portraits printed on moab exhibiton lustre. love the paper but the high key white bkgnd is really noticeable w/o something to even it out. what's my best option short of another paper/printer solution? prints in question are 16x20 and smaller
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Landscapes

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Re: gloss optimizer after printing?
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2015, 04:21:08 pm »

I have actually sprayed my timeless that I use on canvas right onto a luster paper and it works great.  It does change the texture of the paper... it makes it even more bumpy, but I would think this would make the gloss even across the entire paper, the printed on and unprinted on parts.
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aaronchan

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Re: gloss optimizer after printing?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2015, 05:59:03 am »

Hi folks, I've got a canon ipf8400 so no gloss optimizer for me in the printer. lately I'm doing a lot of high key portraits printed on moab exhibiton lustre. love the paper but the high key white bkgnd is really noticeable w/o something to even it out. what's my best option short of another paper/printer solution? prints in question are 16x20 and smaller


timeless is good, but you will need a HVLP.
If you don't want to get one, just buy a can of Hahnemuhle Spray, that works pretty well too

aaron

Gary Damaskos

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Re: gloss optimizer after printing?
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2015, 08:59:29 am »

Hi folks, I've got a canon ipf8400 so no gloss optimizer for me in the printer. lately I'm doing a lot of high key portraits printed on moab exhibiton lustre. love the paper but the high key white bkgnd is really noticeable w/o something to even it out. what's my best option short of another paper/printer solution? prints in question are 16x20 and smaller

Give Premier Print Shield a try.
Gary
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mstevensphoto

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Re: gloss optimizer after printing?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2015, 11:04:35 am »

I've got a complete timeless spraying workflow for canvas. it seems to me that this would be an exceptionally thick and dramatic texture changing solution. it also seems like a great way to introduce ripple into the paper, no? If I hand someone an 8x10 it should still feel like an 8x10 "photo"
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bill t.

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Re: gloss optimizer after printing?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2015, 03:02:17 pm »

Doing my new year media evaluations.  I just happen to be looking at a selection of the same images printed on Silver Rag, BC Baryta, and Expson Cold Press Bright.  ECPB is definitely the winner in that group without a smidgen of bronzing anywhere.  I'm surprised.  The prints are remarkably rich not just for a matte print but for any media, with a touch of elegance that make the glossies look positively honkytonk.  I'm thinking I could really snuggle up to ECPB if a few things can be worked out.

My favorite property of the bare ECPB print is that no matter which way the print is turned in relation to the ambient room light, there is absolutely no hazing of the print surface and the d-max areas retain the same deep sense of black, and bronzing is non existant.  It's hard to explain, but the image presence is really strong possibly because there is no sense of anything at all between the eye and image.  There is no sense of a surface boundary between viewer and image, the image just kind of floats in space.  BTW midtones and highlights are superb as well.

A big problem with the glossies is that when light is coming from behind the viewer, there is considerable surface hazing from reflections, said reflections being completely eliminated by the bare EPCB matte surface.  As one who competes with other art on the walls of galleries I am very sensitive to situations where my pieces are positioned opposite light sources like windows that haze the print from reflections, and that happens enough to be really annoying.  Maybe EPCB will be the unassailable solution to that problem.

Now if there's just a way of protecting the ECPB surface without reflective sheen.  Sheen is an unfortunate fact of life for any surface that has been spray coated by any kind of acrylic varnish or lacquer, or clear laminated, whether gloss or matte of anything in between.  So-called "matte" finishes in no way approximate the reflective characteristics of the ECPB surface.  In my experience ordinary applied finishes always add sheen masking problems, with any ratio of matte to gloss.

Expecting to see a case of Premier Print Print Shield today or tomorrow. I'm hopping that can reasonably protect the matte finish without additional sheen or tonality distortions, and without (too much) need for glass or plexi.  That's the hype for that stuff, I hope it's true.  Wish me good luck with that.

Good grief, I'm even beginning to think about Museum Glass and Optium.  Damn that ECPB looks good!

Edit: changed the phrase "Premiere Art Shield" to "Premier Print Shield" which is the correct name for the product.  I Hope this doesn't cause a top post.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 01:39:08 pm by bill t. »
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mstevensphoto

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Re: gloss optimizer after printing?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2015, 07:32:02 pm »

bill do you like the non glare plexi? I think it's called aqua or water or some such, I'll have to ask the framer. I've been pleasantly surprised how truly clear it is. apparently it's very difficult to get a full case with no scratches but the wholesaler can just take em back.
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bill t.

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Re: gloss optimizer after printing?
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2015, 10:59:11 pm »

Yeah I've used Acrylite P99 few times in the past.  It's not very practical for me since most of what I'm selling now is in 6 to 8 foot wide range, which requires a fairly thick sheet to avoid the funhouse mirror effect.  Factoring in waste and time, I'd be at around $200+ just for the plex at those sizes.  That would have to add at least $800+ to the price of the piece for sales through a commission gallery.  But even worse, the piece would weigh enough that it would almost need two people to move and require meticulous hanging.  P99 does work pretty good, although it will not suppress reflections of very bright sources like overhead lights, windows, and doors.  But it does knock down low grade reflections from opposite walls and in the balance the small amount of hazing it adds is sometimes a good tradeoff.  I need to present bare prints with nothing but surrounding frames to keep both the price and weight within commercially viable ranges, and that makes some sort of applied coating my only real option.  Shipping is another issue, really heavy pieces require much more expensive packaging than lighter weight ones.

Was a little disappointed at the canned version of Premier Print Shield on the Epson Cold Press Bright.  It definitely killed a lot of the print beauty, and brought the deep, velvety blacks up a couple notches.  The prints still look nice, but they no longer get the prize.  And even with four coats they were still vulnerable to scuffing.

However, it was very interesting to see how Premier Print Shield upped the gloss on Silver Rag almost to the level of a mirror-finish RC print, with extremely good abrasion protection.  It took very little spray.  Tonality is definitely richer than the bare prints, although the overall density seems about the same except for more modulation in the darkest areas.  It also unveiled the slight haze found on a lot of glossy media in the dark areas.  And totally eliminated every type of bronzing.  I mounted one of the Silver Rag prints and it's the closest thing I've seen to facemount contrast and depth.  Of course the reflections are very bright, although confined to much smaller areas on the surface of the print, just like traditional glazed pieces and facemount.  Have to think about this.  Hate using the solvent sprays, though, I would have to spend some big money on my so-called spray booth to make it safe and tolerable in my residential location.

Edit: changed the phrase "Premiere Art Shield" to "Premier Print Shield" which is the correct name for the product.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 01:41:24 pm by bill t. »
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bill t.

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Re: gloss optimizer after printing?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2015, 11:36:09 pm »

In regards to the original post, it is remarkably easy to apply Premier Print Shield in spray cans, which I think is the same rebranded product as the Hahnemuehle spray.  It is very effective at eliminating both the conspicuous bronzing in the brightest, mostly unprinted areas on glossy prints, and also the more subtle bronzing that slightly masks darker areas.  But you gotta protect yourself from the solvent vapors to avoid brain death.

For glossies a single, well applied coat seems to the do job, although 2 is probably better, and it's not too hard to get it on evenly provided you work in a non-windy location.  Dries very fast, I was able to glue mount some glossies to Gatorfoam just 30 minutes after spraying by burnishing them down with my bare hand, without no signs of abrasion, scuffing, or scratches.  At least for glossy prints it appears two thin coats may be more than adequate protection for glassless framing, roughly equivalent to a coated canvases in durability.  OTOH, it would probably be best to use an acrylic canvas varnish for matte media, base on my limited testing.  The Epson matte media I tested soaked up the coating well into the 4th coat, leaving the surface not fully protected, which is what I have also seen when testing Deft and other Home Depot grade clear varnishes, none of which I would recommend.

Edit: changed the phrase "Premiere Art Shield" to "Premier Print Shield" which is the correct name for the product.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 01:42:50 pm by bill t. »
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: gloss optimizer after printing?
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2015, 01:42:44 am »

Has anyone tried Krylon Crystal Clear?
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huguito

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Re: gloss optimizer after printing?
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2015, 02:37:13 am »

If you like to go the route of a paper like the Epson Cold Press and show it without glass try Polycrylic Satin.
Its a Home depot item, $16 a quart or so.
I mixed with water 25/75%
Apply on 2 or 3 thin coats with a roller
No gloss differential, no loss of depth, no plasticky look.
Great resistance to scratching.
You end up with a really beautiful satin sheen.
It is also sold as gloss, I have not tried yet.
One print treated that way has been kept under the rear windshield or my car for a couple of months already espose to sunlight. No degradation at all that I can see.

Hugo
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bill t.

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Re: gloss optimizer after printing?
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2015, 02:46:37 am »

Haven't tried Krylon Crystal Clear, but based on your mention I just now dug out a 2 year old can of Krylon "UV Resistant Clear Acrylic Coating" and zapped a Silver Rag test strip with one thick coat at temperatures not too much above freezing.  It's a product claimed to be designed for artwork.

Ten minutes layer it's here before me completely dry albeit rather smelly.  I'll take shallow breaths.  It's got exactly the same mega-gloss finish I got with the Premier Print Shield can.  The test strip is from a very frustrating piece I've been working on that requires a mix of heavy detail in really dark nighttime shade, along with brilliant areas lit by city lights.  Have been testing on matte and glossy papers, and canvas.  Both the Premier and Krylon products open up the shadows much better than I have yet been able to get with any media coated with water based acrylic.  There's a lesson there, maybe.

So for about 7 bucks at Jerry's Artarama you can pick up stuff that at least superficially seems to work as well as $12+ per can Premier Print Shield.  The worrisome thing is this: applied coatings are known to be able to develop issues such as cracking, yellowing, delamination, and many other diseases of paint.  With Premier I at least have a sense there is a certain pedigree going back through fade testing that seems to suggest relatively long term happy coexistance with inkjet surfaces.  I am much less certain about the Krylon stuff, although one can hope Krylon paint engineers have examined their sprays with an eye to paper-art friendliness.  Or maybe not.

Anyway I've a dozen cans of Premier Print Shield and several fresh copies of the same print that I'm gonna play with tomorrow.

The most significant thing in all this brew is whether or not mega-glossy, super-rich, high-dynamic range prints will fly with the print buying public who are generally used to the more genteel presentations offered by painting and matte surfaced photo canvas.  We'll see.  I can be so easily be seduced by prints with remarkable qualities at either end of the matte/glossy spectrum.  Tell me again how much did Mr. Lik sold that big facemounted, superglossy hunk of inkjet print for.  Throw dirt, take picture, sell for $6.2M.  Sorry, the fumes are making me do it.

Edit: changed the phrase "Premiere Art Shield" to "Premier Print Shield" which is the correct name for the product.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 01:45:33 pm by bill t. »
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bill t.

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Re: gloss optimizer after printing?
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2015, 03:03:05 am »

Yup, have been using lots of Polycrylic Gloss, diluted with 1/8 water and sprayed HVLP onto Silver Rag and sometimes Pura Velvet.  You can get a heckuva gloss after the third coat, which in my case delivers a total of about 15 to 20 ml of undiluted Polycrylic per square foot of print.  It's a little harder to use than other varnishes because of a strong tendency to develop skins inside guns and on rollers, but it has much to offer.  Very fast drying, too.

But the gloss and consequent clarity from these solvent sprays is definitely one step beyond that, and on these Premier Print Shield test prints today I am seeing much better shadow and highlight detail than with the Polycrylic, which itself is a few steps ahead of GII or Timeless in that regard. Have been holding my breath about possible Polycrylic cracking issues, but as Huguito mentions no problems yet.

Damned nuisance that the solvent sprays seem to have a clarity advantage over the water based sprays, because solvent is a very difficult process when you try to take it into production rather than just slamming it onto smallish prints with a spray can.  But it looks like it might be worth it.  Would only require me to move my operation into an industrial space and spend $10K on a real spray booth, piece of cake.

Edit: changed the phrase "Premiere Art Shield" to "Premier Print Shield" which is the correct name for the product.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 01:47:07 pm by bill t. »
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