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Author Topic: Fast Raw Viewer  (Read 74762 times)

Manoli

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Re: Fast Raw Viewer
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2015, 06:06:55 AM »

Is ACDSee getting the histogram from the enbedded thumb?.

Phil,

Three suggestions:

1 - use FRV before commenting on it
2 - read the previous thread
3 - and the manual

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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Fast Raw Viewer
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2015, 06:18:22 AM »

Phil,
Three suggestions:
1 - use FRV before commenting on it
2 - read the previous thread
3 - and the manual

1, I did use it
2, He was answering to me from previous post. I think you need to read the previous, previous post.
3, maybe when the filmstrip version is out.

I like the app. I am comfortable with being wrong and maybe even a little quick on first impressions. But I post them as I look for answers to them. I don't have time to invest into everything new that comes along. I appreciate the useful feedback, and I will use it and try it. I also think its OK to bring up other apps, as I do so from experience and how I find things that FRV can do different or better, and at the least an alternate method. ...which in my book is always welcome.

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Manoli

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Re: Fast Raw Viewer
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2015, 06:51:15 AM »

I don't have time to invest into everything new that comes along.

Great, then you'll no doubt appreciate the time and effort that Iliah and Alex invest into answering the more mundane.

In case you missed it :
FastRawViewer is designed to view raw files, meaning - the histogram is of raw, over- and underexposure warnings are from raw, focus peaking is also from raw. That is very different from viewers that rely on either embedded JPEGs or unknown and uncontrolled renditions... One more thing is that FastRawViewer plays nicely with other viewers,

But moving on,

1- Until a built in filmstrip is incorporated, you can improvise by simply opening another instance of FRV.
2- In answer to another earlier query re different curves - a slightly 'hidden' option is to enable bottom bar options ( Preferences>Interface> Edit bottom bar options) and enable contrast curve selector as 'always visible'.

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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Fast Raw Viewer
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2015, 07:55:03 AM »

I do appreciate it. I also hope other readers who are unfamiliar, and potential supporters also do, to make the sw more accessible to new users. 

I guess that's what I was wondering, if in fact ACD was getting from embedded thumb or raw(?), as it too is a raw viewer.
 Having that info is great in FRV, although, I was thinking I am seeing that in ACDS, no? I didn't see a direct answer. "Other viewers" is not inclusive to me.

opening 2 windows does help make it function to compare. I didn't mean for my wonderment to be offensive, and I can see how that might be if I bring up other apps. But I think its better to understand differences, and how one is suited for certain users. It's unhealthy to not have a reference to differ from. That's one thing from the start that appealed to me about FRV. The overall feel, interface.
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Manoli

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Re: Fast Raw Viewer
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2015, 10:16:03 AM »

"Other viewers" is not inclusive to me.

Not that Iliah needs me to clarify, but I suspect that what he's referring to is the way FRV integrates with Lr, C1 etc. You can either drag 'n drop or use John Beardsworth's Lr utility , OpenDirectly, (although C1 doesn't need it, offering the capability natively).

The beauty of FRV lies in both its simplicity and complementary functionality. Apart from the RAW histograms, FocusPeaking, Oe & Ue calculations it's excellent as a 'culling' app. Review a folder of shots and, instead of trashing as you go along, just go ' File>Move to _Rejected subfolder ' for later review / confirmation / change of heart. Uncomplicated, manageable, straightforward.

It's a great app, with unique features, it integrates well - let's not overload it with a ton of duplicated cross-functionality.

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Iliah

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Re: Fast Raw Viewer
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2015, 10:59:39 AM »

Dear Phil,

> if in fact ACD was getting from embedded thumb or raw(?), as it too is a raw viewer.

Depends on the definition of raw viewer. As I see it, FRV is the only one, that is why we made it ;) We have an article, http://www.fastrawviewer.com/viewing-raw-is-not-impossible, which may help to see what exactly we are dong to display raw. You can press 'J' to switch between raw and embedded JPG (or external, if one is shooting raw+JPEG) and see the difference between showing a random rendition and raw. It is like this:

vs.


And if one is selecting based on embedded JPEGs, he will choose this one, underexposed by 1.3EV:


> I was thinking I am seeing that in ACDS, no?

I may be missing the exact meaning of your question, but if you mean by 'seeing that', say, raw histogram - the answer is 'no'. No other viewer is displaying that, only FRV. With the current typical ISO (mis)calibration, it is one of the most useful features we were after when designing FRV.
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Iliah

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Re: Fast Raw Viewer
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2015, 11:02:33 AM »

Dear Manoli,

There is one more way - to pass the file for prrocessing in a raw converter one can use 'R' shortcuts, programmable in Preferences - External Programs. Up to 3 external programs/raw converters can be used.
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Manoli

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Re: Fast Raw Viewer
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2015, 11:43:18 AM »

Dear Iliah,

Thank you for the heads-up, I hadn't noticed that - shows one should read the manual !

I wasn't clear, but was commenting about the reverse - going from Lr to FRV.   I sometimes double check on the original raw file during C1 or Lr develop. It allows me to cross check the degree of exposure compensation, curve adjustments etc against the original file's histogram.
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Fast Raw Viewer
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2015, 12:24:08 PM »

Yes, that's what I was asking, and thanks to clarify that ACD does NOT use the raw to make the histogram.
I can see FRV being a good replacement, specially with browse/filmstrip.
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Iliah

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Re: Fast Raw Viewer
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2015, 07:17:19 AM »

Dear Manoli,

'Preferences' allows a good overview of FRV, but maybe we used a wrong word and folks just do not go there. Should it be 'Customize' instead?
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BartvanderWolf

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Re: Fast Raw Viewer
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2015, 07:34:01 AM »

Dear Manoli,

'Preferences' allows a good overview of FRV, but maybe we used a wrong word and folks just do not go there. Should it be 'Customize' instead?

Hi Iliah,

Preferences is fine, and internationally used for these types of custom preference settings. What would help is some specific tool-tip info that pops-up when hovering the mousepointer over the options.

Cheers,
Bart
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Manoli

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Re: Fast Raw Viewer
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2015, 08:24:59 AM »

Dear Manoli,

'Preferences' allows a good overview of FRV, but maybe we used a wrong word and folks just do not go there. Should it be 'Customize' instead?

Dear Iliah,

I'll agree with Bart that 'Preferences' is both the correct place and terminology for setting all user options and variables.  

In this case, I simply hadn't noticed the option because 'File>Run>external editor' , for an individual file, isn't the way I use the program. In Lr and C1(depending on whether you use sessions or a catalogue) invoking the app brings up the 'Import' screen - too complicated and open to user error for an individual file. I will normally import a whole folder or SD/CF card and then cull. In Lr I can't send a RAW image back out to another editor or (FRV) - which is why I either drag 'n drop or use 'Open Directly'. Obviously this does not apply to converters such as Iridient Developer, where there are no DAM features to complicate a 2-way flow.

With FRV I now cull first, then import a whole folder ( less the _Rejected sub-folder) into either Lr or C!. If I do need to 'play' with an individual file I invariably send it to Iridient.

I also think that the default values you have set for Preferences are excellent. It's definitely not advisable to play around with the Image Display, WB and Colour Management Preference settings unless you are 'sure' of what you're doing. So the 'Restore Defaults' button is indispensable. I'll disagree with Bart, though on the tool-tips idea. These items need, and have, clear guidance in the manual (pages 58 and on) - so, as always, it really is case of RTM !

Best,
M


PS
I assume Bart is referring to the Preferences dialog box , as the bottom bar already has tool-tips ?
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BartvanderWolf

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Re: Fast Raw Viewer
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2015, 09:02:49 AM »

I assume Bart is referring to the Preferences dialog box , as the bottom bar already has tool-tips ?

Yes, I was specifically referring to the Preferences dialog box. While it is impossible to explain everything in a tool-tip, small hints can IMHO be helpful, e.g. "XMP files are saved when exposure and white balance adjustments are be made". But it's not easy to make terse explanations.

Cheers,
Bart
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Iliah

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Re: Fast Raw Viewer
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2015, 01:20:27 PM »

Dear Gentlemen,

It is my experience with pre-press makes me doubt that Preferences are visited at all. Numerous times I was to instruct different pre-press folks to set colour polices in Photoshop Color Preferences correctly, to respect the embedded profiles - and they never knew before it was there.

We will keep 'Preferences' in FRV for time being, but I'm afraid it is obvious FRV is presumed to be a 'one-trick pony' piece of soft while it is far from that. In FRV we tried to reflect on everyday needs of raw shooters, including our own ;)

A tool tip on XMP is rather complicated. First of all, XMP files we record contain up to 3 groups of image processing tags, orientation, white balance, and exposure correction; and up to 2 selection tags - label and rating. It does not mean we do not need those tool tips, or do not mean to implement them - it is just substantial work and needs some time.

XMP files have a forced mode of creation, which we use to propagate settings. For example, some cameras have unreliable orientation sensors (or no sensor at all). The workflow for such situation is described on p.p.33 and 34 of the manual, 'Processing files for the cameras that lack orientation sensors'.

Forced XMP creation is useful for a series of shots that need same exposure correction, white balance adjustment, orientation, and label/rating (that also includes panoramas). Of course, if one decides to apply additional adjustments to the file under the review, the XMP is re-written with new settings.
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alain

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Re: Fast Raw Viewer
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2015, 03:58:18 PM »

Hi

Today I did the first culling of two shoots with FRV and it was a very nice experience, a real time saver.  It where shoots with a lot -expected- rejects and I only used the move to the _rejectecd folder, I will do the further culling and editing in capture one.

Alain
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Manoli

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Re: Fast Raw Viewer
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2015, 04:04:06 PM »

We will keep 'Preferences' in FRV for time being, but I'm afraid it is obvious FRV is presumed to be a 'one-trick pony' piece of soft while it is far from that. In FRV we tried to reflect on everyday needs of raw shooters, including our own ;)

Well, I hope you didn't base that just on feedback from this thread . :) If that is indeed the perception, then perhaps a change of name might be helpful - it's possibly the 'viewer' part that confuses ?

A tool tip on XMP is rather complicated...

Regarding tool-tips and Preferences , if I may suggest:  in this case, they're a bad idea.  I've spent this afternoon working with FRV, Lr and C1. On more than one occasion I've needed to refer to the manual e.g. to check on the settings re auto exposure calculation, interaction with ACR, WB settings, built-in curves etc.. I don't see anyway that a useful tip could be created which would supplement the manual.

As an alternative, perhaps consider publishing the manual, not just as a pdf, but also in a (context-related) accessible format. It's currently also available on-line, via the help menu, in a semi-context related way. Each subsection of the Program Settings chapter (which corresponds to each subsection of Preferences) could be easily linked via another button on each page of the Preferences box, next to 'Restore Defaults'.  It's a very well written, explanatory, manual - I don't see anyway of condensing the descriptions and explanations without reducing it's clarity and usefulness. Having it on the computer and so easily accessible might also increase the chances of people reading it !

Best
M



« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 04:20:12 PM by Manoli »
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stamper

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Re: Fast Raw Viewer
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2015, 06:09:08 AM »

I have to be honest and state I downloaded the program a while back but mostly ignored it. Now I have downloaded it again and paid for it. I am impressed by it and it is worth the modest outlay. Recommended it to a friend. One question is it possible to increase the size of bottom bar by making twice the height or something similar. Still testing the other functions but at this moment in time a winner. :)

Iliah

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Re: Fast Raw Viewer
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2015, 07:19:10 AM »

Dear Robert,

Thank you.

> is it possible to increase the size of bottom bar by making twice the height or something similar

Looks like you are using an HiDPI display?
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Iliah

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Re: Fast Raw Viewer
« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2015, 07:39:25 AM »

Dear Robert,

Thank you, very useful to know.

When scaling in Windows is non-standard, the visible font size changes in large steps. They still can't make a full transition to dpi in Windows. Not that OS X is significantly better in that regard, sometimes even worse.

Font size adjustments are high priority in our ToDo list, will probably have it implemented in v. 1.0.4.
v. 1.0.3 is laying some base for this, but will be mostly about HiDPI and Retina screens.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 07:43:32 AM by Iliah »
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