How do I start with making metal prints?

[crwoo]

Hi, I want to try my own metal prints for personal use and I wonder where I would start? I would use an Epson 3880.

[stockjock]

Do you mean metal prints as in prints on aluminium with the image infused into the coating or "metallic" looking paper?  They are quite different.  I have no experience with the prints on aluminium.  But I have tried both of Epson's metallic papers and I got very good results with the Epson Metallic Photo Paper Glossy.  Epson's profile is crap and you can expect some fairly significant color shifts but images that work on that paper pop in a really big way.  The Epson Metallic Photo Paper Luster is less distinctive although the profile is quite a bit more accurate.  I haven't tried the other metal papers out there.  The best prices on the Epson paper are available from www.immediasys.com.  For some weird reason they are just a lot cheaper than the other suppliers.  Other than the profiles the biggest negative on the Epson is how thin it is but I believe this is normal for these papers. 

[BillK]

If you are talking about dye sublimation on aluminum you will need a heat press and a printer that can use sublimation inks.
For a little less than 3k you can get the equipment to print up to 13" wide. And have a 16x20 press.
To go larger than that, the cost goes up substantially. Probably not feasible unless your volume is very high.

Look here: http://www.dyetrans.com/index.php

I know of no one using a 3880 for sublimation inks.

If you are talking about metallic paper. Thats a different story, most any inkjet printer will work.

[crwoo]

I am talking about the metal prints such as those that Adorama sells. what is that?

http://www.adoramapix.com/app/products/metalprints

[Wayne Fox]

Those are dye transferred metal, which involves using special ink in your printer onto a transfer paper, then applying that under heat and pressure to special aluminum blanks specifically created for the process.

Doing it your self is not for the faint of heart, and it will require you to dedicate your printer to that process because the ink isn't good for anything else, as well as buying a press. You may want to consider just buying them from adorama or similar labs.

[bgphoto]

If you are interested in doing Aluminum prints, you should expect a long learning curve. I have spend the last 2 years perfected my ability to print on Aluminum and my customers are telling me that I have some of the best they have seen.

I spent the first year using a cmyk ink set from one company and then switched to another companies inkset that is cmyklclmlkllk in an Epson 9800.

I have spent countless hours building and rebuilding profiles.

Testing various transfer papers.

Testing many prints of various types including portraits, landscapes, b/w etc.

And countless hours racking my brain trying to figure out how to make the result just a tad bit better.

Recently I read somewhere that printing on metal is partially an art form. I think that statement is correct. It also takes an incredible amount of patience and an absolute perfectionist to get a product that is worth putting your name on.

So, can you convert your 3880 to print on metal? Yes you can. Is it worth it? That is up to you to decide.

Feel free to reach out if you have any questions.
Ben Gasser

[crwoo]

Hi Ben, I would definitely like info on transferring prints on to different materials.

I do not want to modify any printer I currently own, so I am wondering what would be an inexpensive way to get into the inkset. what printers support the inkset? I do not want to get started with a large format because of money and room. Seems like I can't use a Canon iPf8400 or Epson 3880 without modifying it, Right? Are there many models printer's to choose from for conversion?

I am also wondering if that same method can be used for other materials such as mugs, glass, wood, or like the iPhone cases shown on dytran's website.

Is the full color photo transferred to the metal at the same time, or is it applied one color at a time like screen printing?

Any (or all) info and help will be appreciated.

[Wayne Fox]

Canon and hp printers cannot be used for dye sub processes because the heat used to make droplets gasifies the ink. That's the main principle of dye transfer, the heat from the press gasifies the ink on the transfer paper  and because of the pressure it infuses into the receptor coat of object being transferred to.

I think the best printer is to try and find a working 4880. The initial ink setup is prob around $1500 or more.

Most use sawgrass inks for this, liberty photo is a distributor. They sell everything needed  including the blanks and presses.

[bgphoto]

If you want to get into this, the easiest way right now is to probably purchase a Ricoh laser/dyesub printer. You will not have any issues with ink clogs and maintenance of the printer is fairly low from what I have heard.

I personally have never used the Ricoh but my understanding is that it is an easy entry into dye sublimation.

As far as the types of products you can transfer to with dye sublimation, it really is quite broad. From metal panels to coffee mugs to t-shirts.

All inks are transferred at the same time so once you create the transfer your next step is to mate the printed transfer to the item that will receive the image. Then you need a heat press that will transfer the image. For mugs and other items you might need some special equipment. I personally only do Aluminum fine art prints. That was what I wanted to do at the beginning and it is what I specialize in.

There are many distributors of dye sub supplies so you just need to make certain they can help you when you have any questions.

Feel free to contact me with further questions.

[crwoo]

and inkset for a 4880 is more than 1500? that ain't cheep.  what about older epson printers such as the 7600?

@bgphoto: photos from laser printers are generally bad, could i expect a beautiful photo from the ricoh?

could i use an iron instead of a heatpress for my first few photos?

would it be possible to prepair my own aluminum sheets for transfer? I have a good source for cut aluminum sheets and if I could prepare my own that would be a big deal for me.

[crwoo]

ok now i realize the 4880 is a older printer that can be had for cheap. probably what i'd want to start with.

[dgberg]

I started my dye sub business with a used 4880 and still have it. Other then the high cost of Sawgrass inks it is a great printer.
Be forewarned that the Sawgrass driver is Windows and you can only print through Photoshop. I had to get Parallels for my Mac as well as a cc windows Photoshop.
Used presses are available at a good price. I have my used 16x20 Geo. Knight for sale for $675.00
I replaced it with a new 20x25 Geo. Knight air platen and it is a fantastic machine. You need 220 volts plus an air compressor.
If you have not seen Conde Systems Youtube videos they are the best. Conde can sell you any and all supplies you will need. Liberty is another good one.
If all this still leaves you wanting come for a one day workshop to learn the ropes.

Photo of workshop participant with Chromaluxe metal print hot from the press.

[dgberg]

If you are interested in doing Aluminum prints, you should expect a long learning curve. I have spend the last 2 years perfected my ability to print on Aluminum and my customers are telling me that I have some of the best they have seen.

I spent the first year using a cmyk ink set from one company and then switched to another companies inkset that is cmyklclmlkllk in an Epson 9800.

I have spent countless hours building and rebuilding profiles.

Testing various transfer papers.

Testing many prints of various types including portraits, landscapes, b/w etc.


And countless hours racking my brain trying to figure out how to make the result just a tad bit better.

Recently I read somewhere that printing on metal is partially an art form. I think that statement is correct. It also takes an incredible amount of patience and an absolute perfectionist to get a product that is worth putting your name on.

So, can you convert your 3880 to print on metal? Yes you can. Is it worth it? That is up to you to decide.


Feel free to reach out if you have any questions.
Ben Gasser

Ben,
Just want to clear a couple of things up for the people reading as well as for myself.
Are you printing directly on aluminum with an Inkaid  coating  or the Dye sublimation process on Chromaluxe metal?
You say transfer paper which is a dye sub product but you don't say that.
Also the 3880 needs no conversion to print directly onto Inkaid coated aluminum. Just run it through the front path straight feed.
Again if you are talking converting a 3880 to dye sub I am not sure it can be done without doing your own profiling?
You can get the Sawgrass dye sub ink and load it into carts but no one that I know of makes a 3880 driver for dye sub. At least Sawgrass doesn't.
If you actually know of someone who supports a 3880 to dye sub inks please let us know.
Maybe if you are profiling for your larger printer you could take on a 3880. Quite a demand for that size you know.
Give us a little more info. I would like to hear more about your profiling.

[crwoo]

woah!
That's nice dan.
do you suppose I could print a picture that looks like that with inkAID and my 3880 completely stock on aluminum, or do you get better results with the sub process?

[bgphoto]

Dan,

I am printing via Dye Sublimation on Chromaluxe.

I have created my own profiles and am using JTeck ink as opposed to the Sawgrass inks most people are using.

The transfer paper is for Dye Sub printing.

As far as the 3880 is concerned you are probably correct in that Sawgrass does not support it in there power driver software, but I am not certain as I have never used the power driver product. The reason I say the 3880 can be converted is because it has the Epson Piezo head which can be used for Dye Sub printing.

If someone needed a profile for printing to the 3880 that would be up to them. I personally don't do profiles for others.

I have never used the inkaid product.

_____________________________________________

Crwoo,

I don't think you will save much by going to the 7600 in the outset. So, I don't see that as being an advantage.

The 4880 is probably a very good starting point.

As Dan has said, heat presses can be had for a a decent price and that is the direction you would have to go. An Iron is not going to allow you to get even pressure on the piece nor will it allow you to get even heat across the piece. I am not certain if an iron will get hot enough.

The advantage with the George Knight press is that they are high quality and allow for better/even heat distribution across the platen along with even pressure across the platen. Both of which are imperative to getting a good image.

If you are going to use inkaid then everything I have said is for naught.

And, if you are planning to use inkaid then using your own aluminum will work fine. Just make certain it will pass through the printer.

Ben

[Wayne Fox]

do you suppose I could print a picture that looks like that with inkAID and my 3880 completely stock on aluminum, or do you get better results with the sub process?

Think the differences will be pretty obvious an dramatic. The transfer process is far more effective, and leaves a mirror smooth surface with rich translucent dyes that enhance the look.  You just can't duplicate that by printing directly onto metal.

[crwoo]

OK thanks guys, I will be looking for a bargain deal on a heat press... not sure how long it would take.
I have never seen metal prints in real life.

[dgberg]

Order one or two.
I would never go into any business venture without at least seeing the final product.
Your profile is empty,where do you live?

[crwoo]

I am still wondering what quality I can expect from the Ricoh laser printer? I wouldn't be printing weekly so the low maintenance of a laser looks attractive, but if the photos are no good it's no use.

another concern is the cost of blank aluminum sheets.
I live in south dakota.

[bgphoto]

You might contact Conde or Coastal Business Supply about a sample print from the Ricoh. Either company would be more than happy to try and get someone started in the Dye Sublimation business.