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armand

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Pano question
« on: December 15, 2014, 09:08:07 am »

More specifically, panos done at sunset or sunrise where the light is moving really fast, with the sun on the left side.

The usual way is to start from left and that's how I do it, however more than once I start with the sun still up (for sunset) so the left side is quite bright compared to the right. By the time I get to the right end of the pano, that area is quite darker as the sun is significantly lower (and was darker to start with).

How do you deal with this?

I have 2 thoughts but didn't try any yet:
1. use autoexposure (as long as it is under 30 sec) and hope the software will deal with it.
2. start shooting from the right and reverse the order (rename the files) when you import in the pano software.

Anybody tried this?

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Pano question
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2014, 11:50:52 am »

How do you deal with this?

I have 2 thoughts but didn't try any yet:
1. use autoexposure (as long as it is under 30 sec) and hope the software will deal with it.
2. start shooting from the right and reverse the order (rename the files) when you import in the pano software.

Hi,

In my experience it is no problem to use automatic exposure, in particular when shooting Raw files. You can usually equalize the differences in Raw conversion, and good Raw converters will also equalize the differences in the overlap zone. It helps to shoot a larger overlap zone for that purpose, say 50%.

Shooting fast sequences helps, and I use a click-stop indexer for that purpose, although shooting multi-rows is always a challenge. Shooting against the direction of motion (fast moving clouds, to avoid repeating ghosts) or against the diminishing light (if not on auto exposure) will help.

A good panostitcher with a good blending engine will also help to reduce differences in exposure/white-balance.

Cheers,
Bart
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dwswager

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Re: Pano question
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2014, 08:15:19 pm »

More specifically, panos done at sunset or sunrise where the light is moving really fast, with the sun on the left side.

The usual way is to start from left and that's how I do it, however more than once I start with the sun still up (for sunset) so the left side is quite bright compared to the right. By the time I get to the right end of the pano, that area is quite darker as the sun is significantly lower (and was darker to start with).

How do you deal with this?

I have 2 thoughts but didn't try any yet:
1. use autoexposure (as long as it is under 30 sec) and hope the software will deal with it.
2. start shooting from the right and reverse the order (rename the files) when you import in the pano software.

Anybody tried this?

Hmm...typically you would stay away from auto exposure because to keep the lighting even, but if the light itself is varying then it will work.  Shoot raw and balance them before you put them together.

Left to right, right to left doesn't matter.  In fact, the scale on a panning clamp is backwards to pan from left to right, but Sunwayfoto stuff has them backwards...because Chinese read right to left!

I assume you are shooting single row and it shouldn't take long to bang out 4 or 5 images as long as you know the angle of rotation ahead of time.  Set up the shot and even take a series 15 minutes ahead to work out where you need the camera.  See if you can open up the lens a litle or boost the ISO some to reduce the shutter open time necessary for each shot.

Everything in photography is a trade off!  Try it all.  What works for me might or might not work for you.
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armand

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Re: Pano question
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2014, 10:05:08 pm »

Well, I'm already doing the basics, that's why I'm asking. I'm thinking to try a mix of single row with focus stacking and that will take much longer, possible multirow. Even with my current technique (I don't have a pano head/rail) it can take longer than I want to when the sun it's just setting and there is a difference in light in just a minute.
I did some vertical panoramas with autoexposure (by mistake) and the result was good.

Here is an example. It ended up ok but the difference from left to right wasn't as big when I started.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Pano question
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2014, 05:07:12 am »

Well, I'm already doing the basics, that's why I'm asking. I'm thinking to try a mix of single row with focus stacking and that will take much longer, possible multirow.

Hi,

Indeed, focus stacking will add to the time to acquire each image tile before you can move to the next. Multirow then requires more planning, and a procedure that can be executed relatively quickly. Using a click-stop indexer really helps a lot, because t allows you to concentrate on other things, and the amount of overlap between tiles can be set in advance.

Quote
Even with my current technique (I don't have a pano head/rail) it can take longer than I want to when the sun it's just setting and there is a difference in light in just a minute.

That will complicate some things, but you can gradually build the pano rig if you choose a flexible modular platform. For your particular use, a click-stop with clamp, and a No-Parallax-Point (NPP) bar with a camera L-bracket should go a (very) long way towards successful pano-stitching when under time pressure. The click-stop will be your time saver at shooting time, the rest will help to avoid/reduce stitching issues with busy foreground/layered depth clues.

I use the Manfrotto 300N (with an RRS ArcaSwiss style clamp on top) which was at that time sold at a significant discount, so look around for good prices.

Quote
I did some vertical panoramas with autoexposure (by mistake) and the result was good.

Here is an example. It ended up ok but the difference from left to right wasn't as big when I started.

Yet the change in color temperature is (perhaps too) obvious at this small size. At a larger size the color temperature gradient becomes harder to spot because we need more time to take in the whole scene. I typically produce TIFF tiles for stitching, already focus stacked and or HDR tonemapped if needed, and I can already process the Raws to different white-balance settings going left to right, thus leveling the differences a bit. Also exposure differences can be somewhat leveled between joining tiles, but it's not necessary to level the brightness across the entire pano width, unless one shoots 360 degree panos.

This is one of my rare very wide angle panos, which required both exposure leveling (camera on auto exposure, except for the HDR with bracketing ones shooting into the sun), and White balance leveling:

The angle of view was close to 180 degrees, so the left side was warm and totally front lit with a rising sun, and the right side was cool in the shadows and totally back lit. The benefit of exposure bracketing is that one can also vary the White-balance of the Raw exposure brackets before blending/tonemapping, i.e. warmer shadow brackets if they are too blue-ish, cooler highlight brackets, if needed.

Having so many exposures to take, requires a setup that allows to save time when shooting, and for that a click-stop indexer is paramount IMHO. It also makes it easier to place tiles without features to place control-points on, like featureless sky or water.

Cheers,
Bart

P.S. I used the SmartBlend blending engine to allow for a gradual transition of smooth exposure and WB gradients in the sky. It can also be used as a plug-in from within PTGUI and PTAssembler, and if I'm not mistaken from Hugin, and the '-HiPassLevel ' commandline parameter controls the width of the transition zone, so it can be user adapted to different scenarios.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 05:17:46 am by BartvanderWolf »
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dwswager

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Re: Pano question
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2014, 04:13:59 pm »

Bart is correct.  Planning is a big key.  In fact, try shooting it early so you get the flow down pat.  Not sure how you are executing the focus stack (manual or via a tethered setup.)

I don't shoot true panos, but just multi image shots (3-6 tiles wide).  My problem with indexers is they are setup for pano work with stops at 90, 45, 30 etc.  There just aren't enough stops at the smaller angles so I end up with too much or too little overlap.

I have an RRS Panning clamp and 192 rail for the no paralax point shift.  I use a tilt/pan head to shoot at downward or upward angles.  Have not got to multi row yet.
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Misirlou

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Re: Pano question
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2014, 03:19:47 pm »

This is why I'm considering one of those Gigapan units. You still have to do all the thinking and planning, but the shooting could be speeded up drastically.
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rdonson

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Re: Pano question
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2014, 10:20:08 am »

More specifically, panos done at sunset or sunrise where the light is moving really fast, with the sun on the left side.

The usual way is to start from left and that's how I do it, however more than once I start with the sun still up (for sunset) so the left side is quite bright compared to the right. By the time I get to the right end of the pano, that area is quite darker as the sun is significantly lower (and was darker to start with).

How do you deal with this?

I have 2 thoughts but didn't try any yet:
1. use autoexposure (as long as it is under 30 sec) and hope the software will deal with it.
2. start shooting from the right and reverse the order (rename the files) when you import in the pano software.

Anybody tried this?

If you're a Lightroom user you could try "Match Total Exposures" across the multiple images in the pano.  Here's a link that explains how to do it.

http://petapixel.com/2014/12/15/tip-use-magical-match-total-exposures-feature-lightroom-quick-fix/

After you've done this you could export to the pano software.
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Regards,
Ron

Deardorff

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Re: Pano question
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2015, 11:39:54 am »

Why don't you buy a Circuit camera and do it on one shot? Then you can contact print from the negative and get sharper results than with your digital stuff.

7x17. 8x20. 10 inch by 5 foot. The cameras are out there.

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Misirlou

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Re: Pano question
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2015, 05:12:33 pm »

I did buy one of the Gigapan devices right before Christmas. I got the smallest, which is still strong enough to handle my Sigma DP2 Merrill, and the combination does work very, very well.

I tried one pano exactly like the question from the OP: Setting sun, left side of the camera. I set the exposure manually, based on a point of interest in the middle of the sequence, and let the automation take care of the rest. Came out fine.
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