Resolution and Online Printing Services

[ahbnyc]

I understand (more or less) that when printing with an inkjet printer it is desirable to resize an image so that it matches the printer's native resolution.  What is the best way to size photos to be printed using online services like Shutterfly, which I don't think use inkjet printers?  Do you just leave the resolution as is, or are there situations where it would be better to upres?

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

I understand (more or less) that when printing with an inkjet printer it is desirable to resize an image so that it matches the printer's native resolution.

Hi,

That's basically correct, although not limited to inkjet printing. The reasons that it is preferred are that you can use better quality resampling, and you can do output sharpening at the final output size.

What is the best way to size photos to be printed using online services like Shutterfly, which I don't think use inkjet printers?  Do you just leave the resolution as is, or are there situations where it would be better to upres?

I have no idea what equipment they use for printing, but it's that equipment (and the print settings they use) that would dictate the best output size to deliver to them. So I would ask (or search on their website) for the the required output equipment specifications that you'd like to match. Their website doesn't help much, since they state:

What about DPI (Dots Per Inch), etc?
Shutterfly bases a good "resolution" recommendation on the final resolution output of an image and therefore can't give a good recommendation on PPI (Pixels per Inch), LPI (Lines per Inch), or DPI (Dots per Inch). Please look at the final output resolution after the image is created to determine if it will print well on Shutterfly based on the above recommended resolutions.

Those recommendations for file size in megapixels suggest pretty low (100-200 PPI) resolution input, but that's probably to keep a reasonable upload bandwidth performance. There's a pretty good chance that they use equipment with a 300 PPI native resolution, but it could be different/higher for the larger sized output.

Cheers,
Bart

[ahbnyc]

Thank you Bart.  I had looked at the shutterfly website and agree that it isn't very informative -- have tried looking at mpix and bayphoto as well and don't see much info on their sites either.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

What is the size you want to print to and what is the size of the file you want to print from? Also, on what material you want it printed (paper, canvas, etc.)?

[bjanes]

Hi,

That's basically correct, although not limited to inkjet printing. The reasons that it is preferred are that you can use better quality resampling, and you can do output sharpening at the final output size.

Those recommendations for file size in megapixels suggest pretty low (100-200 PPI) resolution input, but that's probably to keep a reasonable upload bandwidth performance. There's a pretty good chance that they use equipment with a 300 PPI native resolution, but it could be different/higher for the larger sized output.

Cheers,
Bart

The relatively low resolution you quote is suboptimal. I assume that Shutterfly uses a contone printer outputting to chromogenic photo paper (e.g. Fuji Crystal Archive) for smaller prints. The commonly used printers in this category include the Fuji Frontiers and Noritusus whose resolutions are about 300 ppi. For the larger prints they likely use Epson or HP inkjets which output at 360/720 ppi and 300/600 ppi respectively. Jeff Schewe is a noted photographer and author who often uses Epson printers and he states that he can see a difference between 360 and 720 ppi. Roger Clark is another noted photographer and scientist who uses HP and states he can see a difference between 300 and 600 ppi.

Photographers seeking maximal print quality should probably look elsewhere than Shutterfly. As to colorspace for their printers, they are vague:

Image Color Space
Published 09/20/2005 09:20 AM   |    Updated 03/17/2014 01:29 PM
What colorspace does Shutterfly accept for my images?
Shutterfly currently only accepts images in the RGB colorspace or mode saved as JPEG/JPG files. We do not accepts images in the CMYK colorspace or mode at this time.

I assume that they expect the images to be in sRGB. Serious photographers usually use ProPhotoRGB. Would Shutterfly read the colorspace tag of uploaded files and convert this space to the native profile of their printers?

Regards,

Bill

[digitaldog]

Jeff Schewe[/url] is a noted photographer and author who often uses Epson printers and he states that he can see a difference between 360 and 720 ppi. Roger Clark is another noted photographer and scientist who uses HP and states he can see a difference between 300 and 600 ppi.

Indeed they do but I’d also suggest everyone do their own testing. I saw no difference even under a loupe on my Epson 3880 between the two (and many other such settings). Could be the files. Could be my eyes. Wasn’t the loupe (it is a very good one). Like the preverbal tree falling in the forest, it’s best to be present yourself to make such decisions. IF I have the pixels to produce say 720PPI, I might, but if not, at least on this end, I can’t see the difference so I’m not sweating it.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...Serious photographers usually use ProPhotoRGB...

"Serious" photographers do not use Shutterfly for "serious" printing. They are a mass-production facility, after all, not a custom lab. This isn't a dig at the OP, by the way. I use Shutterfly occasionally, when needing a lot of 4x6 (e.g.,a family event,  big party, etc. - especially when they offer 100 free prints . In which case, I do not really care that much about pixel peeping or color spaces (I do make sure I send them sRGB though).

[digitaldog]

"Serious" photographers do not use Shutterfly for "serious" printing. They are a mass-production facility, after all, not a custom lab.

Serious Printing, what’s that mean? All these labs have to do is produce consistent output from the same (good) RGB numbers we are supposed to provide. Then maybe have someone look over the prints to make sure no one creased or damaged the print in handing. There’s no custom, master work to be done for many serious photographers. IF you need that, someone to correct your files for output, contact someone like Mac Holbert formally of Nash Editions. This isn’t like handing someone a color neg or transparency and expecting a custom print to be significantly better than a machine print. These labs are all basically making machine prints unless you ask them to mess with your files, then all bets are off. But if you yourself have done a good job producing RGB data in the digital darkroom, these labs just need consistent output such the same numbers produce the same output day in and day out. For many, that little bit isn’t easy to do, that’s another story.

I do make sure I send them sRGB though)

Do you have a choice?

[bjanes]

"Serious" photographers do not use Shutterfly for "serious" printing. They are a mass-production facility, after all, not a custom lab. This isn't a dig at the OP, by the way. I use Shutterfly occasionally, when needing a lot of 4x6 (e.g.,a family event,  big party, etc. - especially when they offer 100 free prints . In which case, I do not really care that much about pixel peeping or color spaces (I do make sure I send them sRGB though).

True enough, but serious photographers sometimes do wish to have inexpensive prints made in volume, as you attest yourself. Why limit yourself and leave image quality on the table by restricting yourself to sRGB and having no ability to softproof (which would require a profile for the printer). When  I need inexpensive prints I use my local Costco which offers custom profiles for their printers. One can use the profiles for softproofing, using either relative colorimetric of perceptual rendering intents. Comparing the gamut of the Fuji Frontier LP 7700 used by my local Costco to that of sRGB in ColorthinkPro, I see that the gamuts are not all that different, but the printer gamut is somewhat larger in mid-luminance greens and teals. With their Epson 7880 inkjet for poster sized prints, the gamut is considerably larger than sRGB in these same colors.

It is no secret that many professional wedding photographers use Costco. Softproofing is critical to preview the dark colors of tuxedoes and pin stripe dark suits.

Regards,

Bill

[ahbnyc]

Thank you all for your input.  I mostly order 4x6 prints but am interested in larger prints, still on paper rather than canvas.  I am still using an 8 year old Canon Rebel XT so files are 8MP -- less if cropped -- certainly adequate for 4x6 but maybe not for much larger.  I am thinking of upgrading to a Canon 70D despite my reluctance to abandon equipment that still works and my realization that my talent does not exceed the quality of my equipment.  It sounds like the best thing to do is upres to 300 ppi in Lightroom when and if necessary and I think I will try the suggestion of using Costco rather than Shutterfly.  I don't think I am at the level of "serious" printing (and certainly don't want to invest in the time or equipment to do it myself) but am looking to get better prints with a reasonably minimal amount of effort while recognizing that it will not be professional quality.

[digitaldog]

I’d try Costco as they have a fully color managed print process, custom profiles you can download etc. I’m not sure if sending your files there makes you or demotes you from being a serious photographer however. But their prices are very good and the quality of the output, if you provide good RGB data, should be very good.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... I think I will try the suggestion of using Costco rather than Shutterfly...

One would think you would easily find the info on print profiles on Costco site. It is not on their screen when you are ordering photos. It is not in their Help section. It is on their home page (Photo Center home page), at the bottom, where all those "small prints" are, under the title least likely to contain info on printer profiles: "About Costco."

As for "old 8MP" camera - you'd be surprised how well it prints larger. I had one of my files (from Canon 20D) printed to 24"x36" on canvas (prepared for printing in Lightroom) and it looks fabulous. Canvas tolerates as low as 100 ppi.

[digitaldog]

I googled “Costco Profiles” first hit was correct:

http://www.drycreekphoto.com/icc/