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Author Topic: Sony A7 MKII Hands On  (Read 4768 times)

LesPalenik

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Sony A7 MKII Hands On
« on: December 10, 2014, 08:14:15 pm »

Thank you, Michael for the highly interesting review of Sony's latest camera and the image samples. It's good to hear that IBIS is working that well, especially with the 600mm long lens.

One correction:
Although I have never been to the photographed establishment, AFAIK, the correct name is Zanzibar. Also it looks like that bar is celebrating their 15th year.
Just in case, some of the Lula visitors to Toronto want to see it with their own eyes.
  
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Sony A7 MKII Hands On
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2014, 03:49:23 am »

Indeed, very interesting "first contact" report. It is interesting to witness the development of the (then) NEX and (now) A series, how it has matured.

I am convinced that in the mid-term I will end up with a A7II plus the FE 55 lens, it seems a perfect combination for general shooting. It's amazing to have such high quality in such a small package.

marcmccalmont

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Re: Sony A7 MKII Hands On
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2014, 06:40:15 am »

Several years ago I was considering a NEX7 or 6 as a high quality compact body for my Leica R lenses
The minute I read about the A7II's stabilization on dpreview I pre-ordered one from B&H now all my Leica R's will have a "Stable" home!
What a bonus that it turns out to be a good camera
Excited
Marc
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Marc McCalmont

JohnBrew

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Re: Sony A7 MKII Hands On
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2014, 07:30:50 am »

After having an NEX-7 I'm extremely leery of Sony products. My ZF.2 21 did work well, however.

peterottaway

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Re: Sony A7 MKII Hands On
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2014, 06:38:06 pm »

Well I bought the Nex 7 and even though there were things that I didn't like about it, that didn't stop me from taking a good look at the A7r and then buying it. Even though I would have preferred it to be more like the RX 10 for use as hand held camera. But since it mainly lives on a tripod it does matter that much to me.

Given the amount of so called commentary coming mainly from the micro four third and canon crowed it's mainly a matter of your predisposition I guess.
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Dan Vincent

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Re: Sony A7 MKII Hands On
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2014, 04:23:16 pm »

It's interesting reading Michael's experience with the AF/MF toggle. It is true that there's many ways to skin this cat and I like seeing how other people like to work.

Quote
The problem is that while there is a very straightforward looking AF/MF and AEL lever and button combination it does not work as you might think it should. How's that, you ask? Well, I'd like to be able to flip a switch or press a button and toggle between autofocus on the shutter button and one-press autofocus on a separate button. I'd like to be able to decouple autofocus and autoexposure – simply. Is that asking too much?

I don't think it's asking too much, but it's not how the focus systems were designed. Unfortunately, there's never been a way to change AF w/ Shutter in a custom button on A or E mount. I don't think there is on any other camera system either, though it is certainly a novel idea. We've had other ways of getting the same results, though.

In A-mount land, we have separate AF/MF and AEL buttons. The good news is that both buttons are programmable to taste.

For airshows, If I want to do AF without shutter, I set the following:

AF w/ Shutter menu setting: "Off"

AF/MF Button: "AF-On"

And that's basically it. It's the tried and true back-button AF method, Nikon style. But that's not always appropriate, especially for general shooting. For doing interiors, I set:

AF w/ Shutter menu setting: "On" (this is where i usually have it)

Focus Mode: Manual (using the Focus Mode switch)

AF/MF Button: AF/MF Hold (or AF-On)

When doing this, pressing the AF/MF Hold button will engage an AF action without having to touch the shutter. Also, pressing the Center button on the joystick will always engage AF regardless of focus mode.

On the a7 bodies they lack the Focus Mode switch but they have multiple buttons that can be programmed for the AF/MF Control (either hold or toggle) so I imagine having one button set to toggle, then another set to AF-On or AF/MF Hold would basically get the same results.

I'd be interested in hearing how Canon/Nikon users do a quick toggle between AF with and without half-press.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 04:33:25 pm by Dan Vincent »
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Chrisso26

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Re: Sony A7 MKII Hands On
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2014, 04:16:41 pm »

I had a Nex 7 and loved it.
I decided to sell it because I couldn't financially maintain native E mount and native m4/3rds lenses. I did use my Leica M on the Sony and got great images.
The thing that makes me leery about any current model is the speed at which they are made obsolete by the manufacturer.
Yes, I know an older camera will still take great pictures, but the maker eventually stops supporting it. there are no new firmware upgrades, no bug fixes, the lens line never gets added to. A perfectly good camera becomes worthless on the used market.
The rate at which an A7 becomes an A7 mkII is just amazing.
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DaveCurtis

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Re: Sony A7 MKII Hands On
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2014, 07:06:17 pm »



I'd be interested in hearing how Canon/Nikon users do a quick toggle between AF with and without half-press.

On my 5D3 I do it via my Custom C1, C2, C3 options. C1 = AF with half press (general shooting) and C2 (action shooting)= shift AF to the AF button and C3 video settings

So its all done done via physical dials no pissin about with menus. This is also what put me off the Fuji xt1.

Dave



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Dan Vincent

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Re: Sony A7 MKII Hands On
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2014, 09:21:52 pm »

On my 5D3 I do it via my Custom C1, C2, C3 options. C1 = AF with half press (general shooting) and C2 (action shooting)= shift AF to the AF button and C3 video settings

So its all done done via physical dials no pissin about with menus. This is also what put me off the Fuji xt1.

Dave


Are you referring to using Memory recall modes to store banks of settings? Because we have those as well (MR1,2,3). But the actual Canon Custom Functions for setting AF W/ Shutter and the function of the AF On button in the menus cannot be toggled by physical switches. That's what i'm asking.

While the A7 series only has MR1 and 2, it seems that it should be able to mimic your particular working style.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 09:34:28 pm by Dan Vincent »
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michael

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Re: Sony A7 MKII Hands On
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2014, 08:46:18 am »

I sometimes think that Pentax and Fuji are the only two camera makers which have engineers who are also photographers.

The Pentax 645z and the Fuji X-T1, both of which I own, each have separate AF-L and AE-L buttons.

You can have focus and exposure on the shutter for casual and fast shooting, but then if you press either of these two buttons it locks that function. The shutter button then just releases the shutter, and these functions stay locked until you press them again to release them.

No custom functions needed, no menu diving. Obvious, simple and very photographer centric.

Michael
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Dan Vincent

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Re: Sony A7 MKII Hands On
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2014, 08:04:20 pm »

Michael,

If you set AEL to Toggle on a Sony (instead of Hold, which is the default), it will do exactly that.

AF/MF Toggle will also do the same thing (it just toggles the camera to Manual focus). My a99 behaves exactly like how you describe Pentax and Fuji when both AEL and AF/MF buttons are set to Toggle. Your old a900 would also behave the same way. It may not do that out of the box (because people expect those things to be holds instead of toggles since the Minolta days), but once you set those two things to toggle, it will not move. Presuming that you set one of your C buttons to an AEL or AF/MF function toggles, the a7 series would also behave the same.

Should those be holds or toggles by default? Any given user can probably argue the pros and cons either way, that's why they're a preference. As a UX person who has managed some very complex software, these are not unfamiliar problems. Cameras are used by varying degrees of user skill and even the highly experienced users have different ways of interacting with the camera. I would say that a hold (instead of a toggle) is a better default because a toggle is a lot riskier. Press a toggle once and the camera stays locked, and if you're inattentive or press it by accident you have the potential to ruin more shots. Some people really want holds, so give them the option to do it if they know what they're doing.

On a tangent, here's a good question without a right answer - should the cameras have several C-buttons, or should one or two be sacrificed for a silkscreened function that can nevertheless be reassigned? I personally vote for "have a preset function that is clearly silkscreened but can be reassigned if needed." But I can also see the downside - C buttons set the expectation that "hey, this could be custom assigned, better ask before using." If you hand someone the camera, they won't get mad if the button does something they don't expect. It's a C button, after all! Sony used to be very rigid about this in the past - the only button that could be changed arbitrarily was the single C button on the upper level SLRs. But now, you can basically customize any button on the back of the camera. The a7 series has a total of eleven customizable buttons: The wheel's spin, C1-4, the three cardinal directions, the center button, AEL/AFL.  From a purity sense, the prior way was better, but for actual users, I'm guessing the "let me reassign my buttons" wins out in the end. The latter has the downside of everybody's camera being different. I'm sure if Michael handed me his a7r he would not have it configured in the same way I would, even though we shoot similar subjects. It's a downside, for sure, but us being able to configure each others' cameras the way we like them probably outweighs a more limited (but very standardized) function set.

One thing I don't really like is the AEL/AF-MF physical switch on the back of the a7 series. It really should be an AF mode (Continuous/auto/single style from the a700/900/77) switch, with the button being the AF/MF control full time and AEL going to where the C3 button is. Fortunately, you can set C3 to be AEL, but I would prefer it to be the default. That way you could set the AEL mode of the two-position switch to be something more needed, like AF Mode or AF Point selection.
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