Pentax 645Z and lenses

[douglevy]

Agree completely.

[ndevlin]

I'm not sure I get this at all. Having used (and liked) an H4 extensively in the past year,  I find the "Z" much more ergonomic than the Hasselblad.  It's not light, but probably lighter than the H5X sans lens, and definitely lighter with a lens, since the HC glass is massive. 

The "H" has advantages over the "Z": better VF, leaf shutters, and Truefocus.  But to me, ergonomics is definitely not one of them.

- N.

 

[douglevy]

That's really interesting. In the few hours I used it, the Z felt awkward and bulky, while the H5X (and my old H1) are a joy to use and hold.

-Doug

[Ken R]

I really like the handling of the Pentax. It is like a typical SLR but with a huge mirrorbox.  Anyone can basically pick it up and start using it right away. With the Hasselblad H cameras that is not the case. The Hassy is a Hybrid Film/Digital camera so it obviously is modular which is awesome but offers just a small dot matrix lcd on the grip to see all settings instead of the knobs / buttons + awesome rear color lcd in Pentax. But once one is used to the Hassy it feels very good in hand and works very well. I really like mine.

[tsjanik]

..................(and my old H1) are a joy to use and hold.

-Doug

 I tried a Sigma Quattro and it felt most comfortable to me upside down and pointing towards me, yet some people like the shape.  Certainly the feel of a camera is a personal response.  I've used, and liked, a Pentax 645 and 645N; the 645D seemed a natural evolution, I wonder if part of your response is  familiarity?

Tom

[eronald]

Some people seem to want a camera to be enjoyable in use, for others the tool is just a necessary stepping stone to the image ...

Edmund

[BernardLanguillier]

Some people seem to want a camera to be enjoyable in use, for others the tool is just a necessary stepping stone to the image ...

I think there is a little bit more to it than that.

I find a nikon J1 very enjoyable to use since it has basially only a shutter release, but it is not as effective as a picture capturing device as, say, my d810, where each necessary command has a physical dial associated to it.

From what I remember of my H1 days, and from what I have seen playing with the 645Z, they are both closer to the d810, but the Pentax is ahead in terms of providing a physical control, mostly very well located, for each important camera function. The slightly more streamlines H UI may make it a bit more enjoyable to use, but I find the 645Z to be more effective.

Cheers,
Bernard

[eronald]

Bernard,


We should count ourselves lucky that we now have as different beasts as the Pentax, new Hassy, old Hassy, Leica S, Phase-Alpa, and even Rollei Hy6 available, each good examples of their own working style. Wonderful times.

Edmund

I think there is a little bit more to it than that.

I find a nikon J1 very enjoyable to use since it has basially only a shutter release, but it is not as effective as a picture capturing device as, say, my d810, where each necessary command has a physical dial associated to it.

From what I remember of my H1 days, and from what I have seen playing with the 645Z, they are both closer to the d810, but the Pentax is ahead in terms of providing a physical control, mostly very well located, for each important camera function. The slightly more streamlines H UI may make it a bit more enjoyable to use, but I find the 645Z to be more effective.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Hulyss]

I tried a Sigma Quattro and it felt most comfortable to me upside down and pointing towards me, yet some people like the shape.  Certainly the feel of a camera is a personal response.  I've used, and liked, a Pentax 645 and 645N; the 645D seemed a natural evolution, I wonder if part of your response is  familiarity?

Tom

Haa!!! Do not speak about Sigma Quattro here please. Those cameras are such a faillure that I almost sold my Audi because of the name.

[douglevy]

Sure, familiarity absolutely plays a role. I've had the H1 and 5X for almost a year now, which obviously doesn't compete with a few hours. But I remember the first time I held a Nikon D3, and it just fit in the hand and got out of your way so you could make photos. Then when I bought the H1, there was a similar feeling, I didn't get anything close to that with the Pentax, and found my fingers stretching for buttons awkwardly.

-Doug

[tsjanik]

Haa!!! Do not speak about Sigma Quattro here please. Those cameras are such a faillure that I almost sold my Audi because of the name.

 LOL.  Nonetheless, the Quattro convinced me to buy a DP2.

[eronald]

 Existing Pentax customers already live with the ergonomics, quite a few japanese don't care as they just want a tripod landscape camera, for slow slow use. Pentax have a lucrative domestic market, including retirees, with a domestic pricepoint of $6K, and they are right to start by serving it.

I don't think Hassy see Pentax as much of a threat in Europe and the US, with the Pentax and H5D40 prices now roughly equal, and each body having advantages - better ergonomics and central shutter on the Hassy, better sensor and liveview on the Pentax. In fact, Hassy can easily defend themselves further by just lowering the price of the H5D50C by 30% or so. I don't think Hassy are frightened of Pentax. Nor are Leica, who have a fairly unique offering and stellar lenses.

Edmund

[ndevlin]

That's really interesting. In the few hours I used it, the Z felt awkward and bulky, while the H5X (and my old H1) are a joy to use and hold.
-Doug

Illustrating perfectly why the "right" camera for each photographer has so much more to it than spec sheets and brick walls.  They have to feel rightin your hand.

- N.

[ndevlin]

Some people seem to want a camera to be enjoyable in use, for others the tool is just a necessary stepping stone to the image ...
Edmund

A completely false distinction.  Without joy in the tool there is no worthwhile image. 

[eronald]

A completely false distinction.  Without joy in the tool there is no worthwhile image.  

So many people here explained to me at some point that leading brand XXXX MF camera bodies are more than good enough, and my frustration personal, that I ended up understanding that for a great many photographers the camera is just a cold inert tool, and their view is that you can use any log to make a fire, provided you bring your own skill to bear.

Frankly, as usability goes, the camera I have liked using most is the iPad, perfect viewfinder, you see what  you get, and get what you see. It is no surprise that it is made by a company that lived or died by print WYSIWYG and desktop publishing for many years. Not the best images, but a great user experience. I have owned a great many cameras, but I find it interesting that the most ergonomic one is a function of an object that I only accidentally realized contains a camera and storage that can feed its display.

 In the end, I think I should thank Synn because reflecting on his posts has taught me that for me as a mediocre photographer it will require exactly the same energy to take a few thousand pictures a year with a mediocre camera and postprocess them, as it would take to locate a better but still affordable solution.

 I guess I should thank Erik for reminding me that if you push a fractal object of nature through any imaging system, at some scale the image will surely break.

 Also, I guess I should thank the artist who posts by the name of Cooter for helping me realize that it is mostly easier to just think of the image and invent a look and redo color to made-up taste in post, rather than to measure color over and over again and try to force a profile through software that fights you at every step.

 And finally, on contemplating my own prints on the wall, I have realized that if you fail to get the pictures you want, you can still live with the ones you did get. For that realization, I guess I should thank Father Time  

Edmund

[mikeSF_]

Based on the review in this website I rented the Pentax 645Z and two lenses the 25mm and 35mm lenses.

The results were quite bad and the images poor.

say what? your only other posts in here suggest you may be an Olympus 4/3rds shooter. Coming from that sensor, you should be in awe of the increased detail. Since you never posted an example, I'll conclude this was a troll post.

[sjprg]

Edmond; seeing as how over the years I have seen your posts I tend to mostly agree with your outlook on photography I will turn to you for recommendations for a landscape lens for the 645Z. Coming from film with a Speedgraphic and a Mamiya C330 to a 1DS3 and than to a D800E I still can't replicate the look of MF & LF that suits me in a price range that I can afford. I hope the next step to a 645Z will finally satisfy me.
Regards
Paul

[Ken R]

I'm not sure I get this at all. Having used (and liked) an H4 extensively in the past year,  I find the "Z" much more ergonomic than the Hasselblad.  It's not light, but probably lighter than the H5X sans lens, and definitely lighter with a lens, since the HC glass is massive. 

The "H" has advantages over the "Z": better VF, leaf shutters, and Truefocus.  But to me, ergonomics is definitely not one of them.

- N.

 

Having owned the 645D and still using the H1 I agree. Like Michael said the Pentax 645D/Z is a DSLR on steroids. The grip feels like a typical DSLR grip it is just much deeper. I prefer the H viewfinder but the Pentax's is good and obviously the Pentax's displays more info and the display is easier to see. The H body grip is not bad it is just that lcd display is not too nice and the control buttons are tiny except the shutter. The H lenses are big and somewhat heavy but most are superb. I really love the look and sharpness wide open of the 80mm and the 150. The leafshutters are VERY useful to me since I work with flash but for those who don't the focal plane shutter of the Pentax offers higher shutter speeds. 

It is obvious that they are VERY different systems.

Generally if you own and use 35mm DSLRs and just want more resolution and higher image quality and can live with the more limited lens selection (specially on the very wide end and of course the very long teles) the Pentax 645z is a pretty straightforward upgrade.

If you love to work at the extremes of the 35mm system, either using extreme wide angles, super teles and wide apertures for very shallow DOF then there are better options and you will feel limited by the 645z system. 

[eronald]

Edmond; seeing as how over the years I have seen your posts I tend to mostly agree with your outlook on photography I will turn to you for recommendations for a landscape lens for the 645Z. Coming from film with a Speedgraphic and a Mamiya C330 to a 1DS3 and than to a D800E I still can't replicate the look of MF & LF that suits me in a price range that I can afford. I hope the next step to a 645Z will finally satisfy me.
Regards
Paul

Paul -

I really have no idea, since all my own attempts at landscape images over the years have failed to satisfy me; I think I lack both the perception and technique for landscape.

I have seen superb landscape shots here, from many talented and technically gifted landscape photographers, and I am sure they will assist you any way they can. One such who has a presence here is Hans Kruse, whose compositions and colors have amazed me.

You might also message Michael himself, he owns a 645Z which he uses for landscape, I believe, has made images I admire and has a way of quickly cutting through bs. with concise good-enough advice.

Edmund

[sjprg]

Thanks for the reply Edmond. Maybe one of the landscape photographers here will chime in with some advice.