Pentax 645Z and lenses

[ladsphotography]

Based on the review in this website I rented the Pentax 645Z and two lenses the 25mm and 35mm lenses.

The results were quite bad and the images poor.
Even with live view and magnification I could not
make the image to pop and the files were soft.
I repited the images with the Sony 7R and similar focal lengths and the images were far superior.

I understand the Pentax lenses are quite variable in quality within the same focal length.

I was very disappointed with this camera system.

Anybody had similar experience?

[leeonmaui]

Aloha,

I doubt it.

[deejjjaaaa]

Even with live view and magnification I could not
make the image to pop and the files were soft.

so they have no value and you can dare to illustrate your point with a link to an actual raw file or two...

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

It is hard to judge anything if you don't supply some images. I am no P645Z user, but I still have some suggestions.

Some things to keep in mind:

• Significant sharpening is needed on any image. Optimal sharpening may be different from your previous system.
• Looking at actual pixels you see the pixels but not the image quality. Let's say you shoot same image 36 MP and 50 MP, using the same lens under same condition. The 50 MP image will look softer at actual pixels but will have the better image quality in real life. The reason is that magnification is different.
• Is your technique optimal? Do you use mirror lock up and cable release/self timer?

Lloyd Chambers has a lot of examples with many of the Pentax 645 lenses shot on Pentax 645D and a few on the Pentax 645Z.  His observations may be a bit mixed. He did compare the 25 mm lens on the Pentax 645Z with a Zeiss Distagon 21/2.8 on the Sony A7r, and generally found that the A7r was delivering best detail in that case.

http://diglloyd.com/index-dap.html#Pentax645Lenses
http://diglloyd.com/prem/prot/DAP/Pentax645Z/645Z-25mm-vs-SonyA7R-21mm.html

Now, Lloyd may be a bit excessive in his conclusions and is quite a bit oriented towards shooting large apertures. He also has very high standard of reference having or having used some of the best lenses ever made.

A gentleman over at GetDPI posted a description including many of the Pentax 645 lenses:
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/medium-format-systems-digital-backs/35577-comprehensive-testing-results-observations-pentax-645-lenses-used-645d.html

This thread discusses lenses for the Pentax 645Z and it seems most owners are quite happy:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=94845.0

As a side remark, I have been shooting old Hasselblad lenses with a P45+. In the beginning I was not that impressed by those lenses but now days I am quite impressed with the very same lenses. Don't know why.

Best regards
Erik

[ndevlin]

I'm not surprised.  My results with the 25mm have been awful too. I haven't made a satisfactory frame with it yet  - on two copies.  No idea why.   

The 35mm is more surprising.  Every copy I've worked with has been nice and sharp - especially in the f8-16 range.

I would stick to regular AF for most purposes - not manual with LV, as the LV kind of sucks, as I've said before.  Magnifying with it is unsatisfying, and especially with the wide-angle lenses it remains hard to see much detail because the detail tends to be so far away. 

I, on the other hand, was looking at some studio shots off the "Z" , shot with the 120mm last night, and was again staggered by the detail, which does translated into very nice tone if processed right.

But if you are happy with your Sony, stick with it. Not that many people really need 645 over FF 35mm.

- N.

[Dshelly]

I took a few shots with the 645z in-store at Samy's Camera in LA. It was a tad dark inside so I bumped the iso and shot about a dozen hand held pics with the available light. When I got to my office I took a look at them on my computer and was impressed with the clarity and the ability to pull detail out of the shadows. To get hand-held shots in that lighting gave me confidence that this is an excellent camera to have in my bag.

[tsjanik]

If you had trouble with both lenses, it seems (excluding operator error) that there may be an issue with the body.  I would contact the rental agency, inform them of your results and ask for another body to try.

[goldfinger]

The results were quite bad and the images poor.
Even with live view and magnification I could not
make the image to pop and the files were soft.

I have made the same experience with the 645z. Have also compared with the Leica S and these are worlds. The 645z pictures always poor and the image does newer pop as you mentioned. Yes maybe the 645z is a "cheap" medium format camera but unfortunately the picture quality is cheap too. All these technical features are for nothing if you can't achieve some sort of quality.

[Tony Jay]

I have made the same experience with the 645z. Have also compared with the Leica S and these are worlds. The 645z pictures always poor and the image does newer pop as you mentioned. Yes maybe the 645z is a "cheap" medium format camera but unfortunately the picture quality is cheap too. All these technical features are for nothing if you can't achieve some sort of quality.

I would suggest that there is more to this issue than meets the eye.
If a photographer of the stature of Michael Reichmann has adopted the 645z when IQ is such a critical factor to the man then this fact alone should give one pause for thought.
Just saying...

Tony Jay

[BernardLanguillier]

Strange, the results I have seen from the 645Z were absolutely stunning, but I am not sure what lenses were used.

Cheers,
Bernard

[michael]

I have owned Contax, Hasselblad and Mamiya/Phase One cameras and lens systems over the years.

I have owned and shot with the P25, P45, IQ 180, and tested most other Phase and Hassy backs. I have also worked with the Leica S2.

In my opinion the Pentax 645z not just meets the others in terms of image quality, but surpasses most of them. It's hands-down a more user oriented camera than any of them, except the Leica S.

Leica S lenses are no doubt superb, as are some of the new Phase / Schenieders. But The six Pentax lenses that I own are excellent, and for real world photography (not lab tests or pixel peeping) they are generally excellent and a joy to use.

If one is a measurer, then arguments can be made. If one is a photographer, then I'll stack the Pentax 645z and its lens line up against anything on the market.... and if price is taken into consideration then there's a mid-range Mercedes or BMW in-between putting together a Phase One or S Leica system and one from Pentax.

As for the picture quality being "cheep", I'll be polite and simply call bullshit.

I'll take the Pentax + a fine car, thank you very much.

Michael

[Ken R]

I have owned Contax, Hasselblad and Mamiya/Phase One cameras and lens systems over the years.

I have owned and shot with the P25, P45, IQ 180, and tested most other Phase and Hassy backs. I have also worked with the Leica S2.

In my opinion the Pentax 645z not just meets the others in terms of image quality, but surpasses most of them. It's hands-down a more user oriented camera than any of them, except the Leica S.

Leica S lenses are no doubt superb, as are some of the new Phase / Schenieders. But The six Pentax lenses that I own are excellent, and for real world photography (not lab tests or pixel peeping) they are generally excellent and a joy to use.

If one is a measurer, then arguments can be made. If one is a photographer, then I'll stack the Pentax 645z and its lens line up against anything on the market.... and if price is taken into consideration then there's a mid-range Mercedes or BMW in-between putting together a Phase One or S Leica system and one from Pentax.

As for the picture quality being "cheep", I'll be polite and simply call bullshit.

I'll take the Pentax + a fine car, thank you very much.

Michael

Exactly. The posts bashing the 645z are very suspect given that they were made by members with just a handful of posts. Maybe hired guns by the big MFD MFGs? Humm. All in good fun.

[tsjanik]

Exactly. The posts bashing the 645z are very suspect given that they were made by members with just a handful of posts. Maybe hired guns by the big MFD MFGs? Humm. All in good fun.

It does make one wonder.  Some criticisms of the Pentax are so extreme and contrary to most reports as to call into question their credibility.

[goldfinger]

Maybe hired guns by the big MFD MFGs? Humm.

LOL...
... and certainly you are a shareholder defending your brand

[FMueller]

I have not had the opportunity to test as many cameras as this (nor do I want to) but am convinced that the arguments are about details that in the end will not be noticed by most consumers of photography.

I use a wide variety of cameras and formats (its a disease from APS-C up through MFDB with a tech cam, all for my non-professional enjoyment and creative fulfillment. The highest resolution and sharpest setup is not necessarily, or even most of the time, the aesthetic that I want. But then sometimes it is when I'm after what Mark Dubovoy has called "hyperreality" in a LuLa article.

The price of "hyper-reality" is coming down and pressuring the market down as well as evidenced by recent Leaf Credo promotions and Phase One promos.

Thats all good. Now we aren't shut out (financially) from obtaining that high res aesthetic, but the Nikon D8xx users have been saying that for years even though as it turns out high res is not the end all and be all we once thought it was at the beginning of the digital revolution.

The technology and financial barriers are coming down and once again we are left with creating photographs. Now, how great is that!

I have owned Contax, Hasselblad and Mamiya/Phase One cameras and lens systems over the years.

I have owned and shot with the P25, P45, IQ 180, and tested most other Phase and Hassy backs. I have also worked with the Leica S2.

In my opinion the Pentax 645z not just meets the others in terms of image quality, but surpasses most of them. It's hands-down a more user oriented camera than any of them, except the Leica S.

Leica S lenses are no doubt superb, as are some of the new Phase / Schenieders. But The six Pentax lenses that I own are excellent, and for real world photography (not lab tests or pixel peeping) they are generally excellent and a joy to use.

If one is a measurer, then arguments can be made. If one is a photographer, then I'll stack the Pentax 645z and its lens line up against anything on the market.... and if price is taken into consideration then there's a mid-range Mercedes or BMW in-between putting together a Phase One or S Leica system and one from Pentax.

As for the picture quality being "cheep", I'll be polite and simply call bullshit.

I'll take the Pentax + a fine car, thank you very much.

Michael

[JV]

The price of "hyper-reality" is coming down and pressuring the market down as well as evidenced by recent Leaf Credo promotions and Phase One promos.

Thats all good. Now we aren't shut out (financially) from obtaining that high res aesthetic, but the Nikon D8xx users have been saying that for years even though as it turns out high res is not the end all and be all we once thought it was at the beginning of the digital revolution.

The technology and financial barriers are coming down and once again we are left with creating photographs. Now, how great is that!

Just adding to the above-mentioned promotions that Hasselblad is also selling the H5D-40 now for $9,995:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/893188-REG/Hasselblad_H5D_40_DSLR_Camera.html

[BernardLanguillier]

It does make one wonder.  Some criticisms of the Pentax are so extreme and contrary to most reports as to call into question their credibility.

I had the very same thought!

Cheers,
Bernard

[douglevy]

Michael,

I'm an h5x owner and finally got to play with the Pentax yesterday for a few hours. I found the LCD and sensor amazing, but could not imagine shooting handheld for any length of time with it, it struck me as bulky and awkward ergonomically. Especially compared with my nikons and the hasselblad.


-doug

[Steve Hendrix]

I had the very same thought!

Cheers,
Bernard

I feel if you post a criticism of a legitimate product and you don't follow up with further posts, that leads most - myself  included - to assume the initial solitary post may lack credibility. Especially when the number of posts from that user is very low...

Not saying this is the case here, but IMO it is incumbent upon the poster to further elucidate, otherwise suffer the skepticism over their post.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

[michael]

Michael,

I'm an h5x owner and finally got to play with the Pentax yesterday for a few hours. I found the LCD and sensor amazing, but could not imagine shooting handheld for any length of time with it, it struck me as bulky and awkward ergonomically. Especially compared with my nikons and the hasselblad.


-doug

Doug,

It's a very different animal than a H5. More of a DSLR in steroids than a medium format design. This has pros and cons.

Michael