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Author Topic: Playing with analog glass  (Read 3607 times)

Chris Barrett

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Playing with analog glass
« on: December 02, 2014, 04:17:55 pm »

I've got a big furniture shoot coming up next week and having not much to do today, I thought I would test out some new lenses that I bought for my 4x10 camera.  These are the Schneider Super-Symmar XL 110 and 150.  Both cover 8x10, so using them on an IQ 260 seemed kind of silly.  Still, I wondered how their sharpness would compare to my digital glass, so I setup my M2 in the bedroom and had a look.  I've turned off sharpening in C1 Pro and applied none in post, so they're all a tad soft.  My typical sharpening routine would have them all looking very crisp.

Here's pics... right click to view larger.

Rodenstock HR Digaron W 90mm + detail




Schneider Super-Symmar XL 110mm + detail




Rodenstock Apo Sironar Digital 135mm + detail




Schneider Super-Symmar XL 150mm + detail




The 90 feels a touch more crisp to me and DoF obviously decreases as they get longer, but given none of these have been sharpened, I think they're all totally usable on the 60mp back.  I mean... they're sharp enough for architecture... maybe not for people who shoot sharpness charts for a living  ;)

Cool.

CB
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 04:25:56 pm by Chris Barrett »
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ben730

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Re: Playing with analog glass
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2014, 06:56:54 pm »

Chris,
I also think the results look good.
In my opinion the longer lenses didn't improve a lot over the last years compared to the wide angles.
Did you also check the coating. How are they in strong backlight?
Thanks,
Ben

EricWHiss

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Re: Playing with analog glass
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2014, 11:17:20 pm »

CB,
Thanks for sharing!
I've done some similar testing with the old lenses from my linhof technika kits some of which are now several decades old.  The surprise is not just that they are definitely usable, but also the more gentle out of focus rendering and bokeh.    One issue that does come up is axial CA  seen as green and purple bands on edges just near the outside of the DOF.  Purple goes away in C1 pretty easily, and the green isn't so noticeable so not really a problem.   
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ondebanks

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Re: Playing with analog glass
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2014, 07:30:31 pm »

Chris,

Nice to see these older lenses performing well on your DB.

Were they stopped down, and if so by how much?

Ray
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Chris Barrett

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Re: Playing with analog glass
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2014, 07:40:25 pm »

I shot everything at f/22.  That's usually a little more than you would stop down for Medium Format, but it seemed to be a nice balance between diffraction and DoF on these longer lenses.

PaulSchneider

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Re: Playing with analog glass
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2014, 03:13:48 am »

Chris,

genius! Have you stitched a few frames with the SSXL 150? One must have endless coverage!

I only have an arca swsiss f line metric - is it also possible to use this with a digital back?

How did you focus?

Best,

P
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RomanN.

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Re: Playing with analog glass
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2014, 05:50:06 am »

you can use your Arca Swiss F with digi backs- you need a direct adapter or a sliding back, rotaslide from arca or kapture group sliding back. Both sliding back have 69 kamera adapter, so if your F-line is 69 you can start with work, if you have 4x5 inch f-line you need 4x5 inch to 6x9 cm (3x3 inch) reducing adapter. You  can focus on screen by using good Lupe - for example Silvestri 12x Lupe ( cost about 120 euro)
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PaulSchneider

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Re: Playing with analog glass
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2014, 07:47:40 am »

This being said, what is the disadvantage then of using the old analog lenses? It seems to me that they are excellent and provide excellent coverage to boot!

thanks for the advice roman! Would you recommend using an 80mpx back in such a setup? I think I have a 150xl lying around from the film days!
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Chris Barrett

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Re: Playing with analog glass
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2014, 01:12:36 pm »

The SK Super-Symmar XLs are very sharp.  I've run my Rodenstock 90mm film lens against the 90mm digital lens and the old glass is MUCH softer, so... lens by lens.

RomanN.

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Re: Playing with analog glass
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2014, 07:30:55 pm »

This being said, what is the disadvantage then of using the old analog lenses? It seems to me that they are excellent and provide excellent coverage to boot!

thanks for the advice roman! Would you recommend using an 80mpx back in such a setup? I think I have a 150xl lying around from the film days!
to this setup: you can use the Arca swiss F-line also with 80 mln back but take care of the rear standart- it must be well calibrated and closed very strong. Arca and linhof use now rear standart that are not moveable( techno, M-line 2) becouse this is the most critical element.
To the 80 mln back- you get the most of this back with new retrofocus Rodenstock lenses used by aperture 8-11 ( 8 would be better but is not realistic with some lenses), aperture 22 limitate the resolution with this back.
150 xl is a great lens for big film formats with 105° image angle, but I would say you will never get use of the whole image circle even of the usual 150 mm large format lens with 72° angle like Apo symmar/sironar that will deliver the same sharpness or even better than the 150xl.
By the way: most of the Digitars and Apo Sironar Digital lenses are relabeld analoge lenses that works well with digital backs. So the digital roddi 135 mm is the same lens as Apo Sironar S  75°, it is very good for digital use becouse it have best performance at 11-16. The same is with Apo Grandagons, Apo Componons, all 6x9 lenses like 100 a.symmar/a.sironar n, 47 S.angulon or the great Apo symmar 120 mm, that was the latest and best of this series. So the lenses with less image circle will be better for digital use, but if you need so big movements why not use the 150xl? it will not get everything from the 80mln back, but if you stich it doesnt matter.
I use Digarons S-W, Digitars and some analoge lenses and make the experiance that a cheap old Sironar N 72° 100 mm can get same results at 11-16 like newest digarons, even with 80 mln back.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 07:33:27 pm by RomanN. »
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