Large number of prints to be made:Outsource or buy LF 40+" printer?

[Phil Indeblanc]

So I am asked to cover a bit over 500sqft of wall space.
The work will need to be mounted to black core 3/16", 5/8, or 1/4" Gatorboard. Then some how placed on wall.
The prints will range from 11x14" to 40x60"

This will be for an indoor office like space for long term display (5-10+years). When they decide to take down, it would be nice to be able to retain, exhibit elsewhere.

I have an old 24" HP printer(HP-130gp/6ink-Dye based).
Should I outsource most of it (larger than 24" I can't print) or the entire job?
Or do I buy a new printer and outsource the mounting?

[jferrari]

Phil, three points you may want to consider:

1) I'm sure you know that you can't simply just buy a LFP and be done with it. There is a learning curve, supplies and materials, real estate and your labor to factor in.
2) What do you do with the printer when you are done with this job? LFP's are designed to run and stay running. They don't take kindly to just sitting around.
3) How are you going to protect and mount the printed images? Are you also going to buy a sprayer and/or press?

Just food for thought.     - Jim

[Phil Indeblanc]

Thanks Jim,

Yes, I plan on buying one ready to go with a starter or full inks/heads and I have a number of rolls already, and would get an additional 44" roll. I was thinking of the z3200(if I can get at a reasonable used price). I have a 24" on a stand now in the studio, so I know I will need double its space which I have.  The HP and particularly the 3200 is designed for low volume use. I run the HP130 much like I would the new larger size. I know its twice the space. The HP's are great at picking up where they left off even weeks or month after not printing. (I expect this to be alike, or maybe there is an auto clean cycle?).

I would occasionally print some photographs, run proofs, and I'm thinking I can run small prints(?)< I'll have to check the smallest print size.

I think you missed that part in my post. I plan on having the work mounted by a shop.

So far prices I get for print and mount are very up and down. I get quotes very low, but not in the SoCal area. I have gotten $6-8sqft includes print and mount here, but less farther away. Others locally more than this. These are mostly on a Z6100. a faster, yet not as nice print as the Z3200, which is a slower machine (8inks vs 12inks).

I think the shop would mount them. its for indoors, and I thought to simply hang them. I don't want to laminate them.  Are you saying I might need to spray coat them with some fixative like spray?  I have used some clayboard like fix before. Its been a while, but I have experience with the roll printers and RIP software. Not for such a batch job of 40-50 prints.

[jferrari]

Are you saying I might need to spray coat them with some fixative like spray? 

Any inkjet pigment print on any media should have some kind of protection from dirt, abrasion and fading. This is typically accomplished by mounting behind glass, laminating or coating. You don't have to do anything to protect your prints but you run the risk of degradation due to the aforementioned concerns.    - Jim

[Phil Indeblanc]

Yes makes sense. I plan to simply mount them and I can do the spray coating myself. I think there is a archival version of Krylon that wont yellow someplace.

Premier Art Print Shield and Krylon Preserve it I did find in my arsenal.

What do you all think about the situation with taking the work to the printer vs becoming the printer?

Not so new to me, but in this volume and this size it is a bit new and a bit of a challenge. Also, I need to find someone who will mount these for me.

[Jglaser757]

I have been involved with an extensive discussion on framing large work on a different forum.

http://www.thegrumble.com/showthread.php?74057-Differences-between-Varnish-manufactures/page3

And, have posted a lot of questions here too. I have been testing out spray varnishes myself of different papers but have not reached any conclusion yet other than Blair Supergloss is technique sensitive.

I am also going to be printing my own stuff and think the purchase is worth it. But I still had some else do my present show at Art Basel because of the time factor and learning curve.i only had 30 days and there were too many variables. If you have a few months to go before show, I would do it. If you only have a few weeks, then you are hard pressed for time.

I will never use gator board by itself again. It is too fragile and every piece I have has been ruined due to dings, scratches or tears on the edges. I understand it is what the client wants but are they paying for it, or it your expense?  I would also recommend these corner protectors .

http://www.binding101.com/foam-board-corner-protectors.html   They have helped an enormous amt while transporting, but they have to be placed very carefully. But they definitely help.

[Phil Indeblanc]

The first 12-15 in one area needs to be covered asap. But I am familiar with HP methodology, and setting up an ICC and getting correct color, etc. I'm sure I will be doing plenty redundent reading.
But thank you for the encouragement. I am actively looking to purchase. Looks like big shops are moving to Latex and there are plenty models available. Many z3100, and I'm tempted by the $1K prices.

[Phil Indeblanc]

any other material to recommend besides Gatorboard? I know foamcore is a no-no.

[Mark Lindquist]

Phil, one thing to consider is that the Z3100's are now very old.  I would recommend a more recent Z3200 because of the better reds, and because the chances of the shredded belt issue and PSU fan issue would be less, unless you find a Z3100 that has had a belt replacement recently.

From experience, if you get a used Z, be sure to lubricate the carriage rail.  Any friction will do the belt in if it's ready to self destruct.

That would be my main concern with a used unit. 

Becoming your own print shop is not a bad idea, but buying someone elses problems in a used printer for a deadline job might be.

It sounds like you can handle it.  Is there a place like White House out there?

http://www.whcc.com

Also, have you given any thought to Dye Sub prints on Aluminum?

Guaranteed, after 5 years, they'll be as good as when first hung.  More money, but perhaps a bigger bang for the buck.

[Phil Indeblanc]

Great advice. Thank you Mark.

I'll remember to look at the belt condition. Anything else?

Becoming your own print shop is not a bad idea, but buying someone elses problems in a used printer for a deadline job might be.

This is the dark cloud I need to avoid.
I have had a couple Alum prints done, but I think it was solvent ink. I don't think I saw it on the whcc site.
Locally I'm getting $7-8sqft with mounting on gator (printed on a 6100). Its more than I thought, since I think I can run it at ~$1.50 sq.ft. Then I have to take the prints and have them mounted.
There are manual rollers to mount these, but thats something I don't know about and rather outsource it.

I expect the z3100 prints on Satin to be as good as hung as well(indoor office like space)

[Mark Lindquist]

Great advice. Thank you Mark.

I'll remember to look at the belt condition. Anything else?

Yes.  Before you buy, go to the front panel of the printer, go into menu, then information>printer logs>system errors.  Very easy to do.  check out the systems errors one by one.  See if there is an error regarding the PSU fan not working.  If it says the fan stopped, and there are several of these errors, find another printer.  Additionally, just run through the error messages.  They will tell you what problems it has had.

Bring a small roll of paper and load it, if there isn't already paper in it.  Then in the menu under maintenance, run a diagnostic chart.  Often used printers sit around unplugged.  If the diagnostic image shows print head clogs, just run one cleaning cycle and print another diagnostic image.  If still clogged, better think twice about buying that printer unless you want to spend a lot of time and extra bucks screwing with replacing print heads, etc,

For prints on aluminum, look at AdoramaPics

They are dye sublimation prints on actual aluminum.  You can clean the surface with windex, lol.

Yes, Dye inks, rather than aqueous based, but they've come a very long way.  These things can be gorgeous and no issues, period.  Hanging system built in, borderless, and the print is infused into the aluminum, literally baked in.  For public spaces- it's a very viable solution. 
Google aluminum prints and you'll see there are many sources.  Bay photo is one in your state.

Just my take on your project.  Consider outsourcing seriously.  Everythingb will be packaged and protected until you get there.  Outsource, then buy the printer you want or need, with the profits.  That way, no pressure to find, buy, trouble shoot, learn, fix, break down, repair, etc.  Whitehouse mounted prints are awesome - they would work for your job, or look into bay photo.  Good prices, Okay quality, etc.

Finally, if you do find a workable 44" printer and do go the route of making your own prints, just do the prints, outsource completely, the rest.

Good luck with it.

Mark

[John Caldwell]

Re: The actual display of your mounted prints, Phil: Much of my large printing is displayed in the way you're discussing. With rare exception, our prints are made on Canson Baryta Photographique with the Epson 9900, then mounted to 1/2" Gator foam, edge-banded when appropriate, and then laminated. A luster finish laminate is the default, although a glossy laminate has its place. Some jobs are printed on BC Metallic paper, depending on image content and exhibition circumstances. You expressed a need to avoid lamination, but I wasn't sure why you feel that way. I do know it is the *non-fine art thing to do*, but I'll testify that it just works for a lot of my work.

I take all of my amounting and laminating to a 3rd party shop. I pay $5.20 per square foot for 1/2" Gator, and an additional $2/sf for laminate. Edge-banding with melamine costs me $1 per linear foot.

Regarding your original question, I guess I'd sub-out the printing if I felt that this would represent a one-time job. If this can turn into a product line for you, on the other hand, that would be different.

Good luck.

John Caldwell

[Phil Indeblanc]

Thank you John,
I'm trying to keep the total cost below $8sqft.
The 5.20sqft is for just the mounting? Or is that with print?

I'm getting closer to sub-ing out the entire project, as I don't want to settle for an older printer, since there are some issues the 3200 has updated over the 3100. But maybe it is worth getting a hardly used 3100 for about $1K?
As I think I may have a hard time finding a clean 3200?  I have to play it by ear.

Yes, I do plan on turning it into part of my work, but the frequency would be low. I think this model can sit idle for some time before I have to make another print, so that is helpful(?).
(My Dye inks on the 130 could sit for weeks with no print issue on return)

Mark, Thanks for these tips and suggestions. They are great. Some confirm my instincts, and others enlightening. Thank you!
Btw... Nice sculpting work!