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Author Topic: large format scanning  (Read 6673 times)

steve_d

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large format scanning
« on: December 15, 2005, 10:43:56 am »

This is my first post as I just joined, despite having been reading about Michael's work for years.

Background:  I am exclusively an amateur, having mostly used film SLR and DSLR with limited to no experience in professional lighting and large-format photography.

I have a requirement to do some large format scanning for digitally preserving some historic documents - mostly maps and some art work that a client wants captured at a fairly high resolution.  Some of the works are fragile and won't be available to be moved off-site or for using in a large flatbed scanner..... so this leaves large format digital photography.

Question:  Are there any companies or individuals in Atlantic Canada that have the equipment to do this type of work for me?

If not, I've examined the equipment rental options available and was trying to price out the insurance requirements for a PhaseOne P25 or PowerPhase FX with a Sinar 4x5 and appropriate lenses (thinking 300-400mm would work best), monitor calibration tools, several high W halogens, copy stand and camera frame/mount, etc.

Does anyone have recommendations before I proceed too far along this latter path?  Since I'm "fairly" certain this equipment isn't readily available in Atlantic Canada, I'm prepared to go with the rental option, but given my limited experience, will I encounter many problems in the "learning curve"?  If all goes well, I'd consider purchasing this type of equipment, but thought I'd gather some opinions first.
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bob mccarthy

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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2005, 12:26:50 pm »

Quote
I have a requirement to do some large format scanning for digitally preserving some historic documents - mostly maps and some art work that a client wants captured at a fairly high resolution.  Some of the works are fragile and won't be available to be moved off-site or for using in a large flatbed scanner..... so this leaves large format digital photography.

[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I began in photography doing this sort of work in the early 70's.

Are you sure you need medium or large format digital capture. Can you test with a high res DSLR, with the appropriate lighting (this I agree is critical) and see if this fills the clients needs.

If not, this sort of work is the lifes blood of a LF scanning back (betterlight) and in my opinion the very best solution for what your trying to accomplish.

[a href=\"http://www.betterlight.com/]http://www.betterlight.com/[/url]

http://www.betterlight.com/khabouris.asp

I just noticed the company has a direct rental program with details on there web site.


Bob
« Last Edit: December 15, 2005, 04:34:52 pm by bob mccarthy »
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steve_d

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large format scanning
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2005, 09:11:59 pm »

Quote
I began in photography doing this sort of work in the early 70's.

Are you sure you need medium or large format digital capture. Can you test with a high res DSLR, with the appropriate lighting (this I agree is critical) and see if this fills the clients needs.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=53630\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I've considered the DSLR option and looked at using a Nikon D2S or D2X and am still debating about going this route - I guess my biggest concerns are:

1)  Taking several shots to capture the document, increasing the chance for error.

Even with the tools available from zig-align and a suitable copy stand, lighting, etc. I'm not 100% confident that I'll manage to get things "true" across multiple shots.  There's also the chance for subtle light changes with each adjustment.

2)  Suitable resolution of the final image might not be achieved.

Although this is dependent upon the lens and distance from the document so a work-around might be feasible.

I guess I'm torn - I'd like to do this properly but the medium and large-format equipment is $, even with a rental.  What I do like about the DSLR is it gives me equipment that I can use for my other pursuits after this project as there's no guarantee I'd ever be doing this again...
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steve_d

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large format scanning
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2005, 11:06:27 am »

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I've considered the DSLR option and looked at using a Nikon D2S or D2X and am still debating about going this route

That should have read D200 or D2X.
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bob mccarthy

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« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2005, 11:19:49 am »

Do you really need the resolution that shooting segments and stitching them together would offer? That does seem extreme!

Is not a  capture from a higher res camera with a great macro lens good enough for documentation purposes.

I would have to go back to suggesting the view camera with a betterlight scanning back if not.

I would suggest managing the clients expectations?

Bob
« Last Edit: December 21, 2005, 01:33:45 pm by bob mccarthy »
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BernardLanguillier

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large format scanning
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2005, 06:43:13 pm »

Hi Steve,

Basically, I agree with Bob that your application is exactly what scanning back are typically used for.

Besides Betterlight, you can also often find second hand phaseone scanning backs on Ebay if money is an issue.

As far as stitching is concerned, I have had perfect results using a D2x and the cylindrical/spherical set ups provided by www.reallyrightstuff.com.

I have found PTgui 5.5 to be a great stitching software that handles very high resolution images rather well. Using it in combination with DxO Optics Pro 3.5 might be the best combination if a total lack of distorsion is your priority.

Another option that might be worth exploring is the Horseman LD LF for DSLR. I have one but haven't really had the time to use it much yet. It accepts Mamiya/Hassy medium format lenses down to 35 mm and makes it possible to do flat stitch over the surface covered by the image circle of the medium format lens. Critical focus isn't super easy to achieve though. Jack Flesher has been investing a lot of time in exploring these possibilities as well.

Regards,
Bernard

Tim Keefe

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large format scanning
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2009, 09:35:35 am »

I am currently using a Hasselblad 39Multi Shot for historic paper, papyrus, and skin based materials and would highly recommend this as a solution. One thing to consider though will be the cycle time of your lights. The multi shot synchronization is fairly rapid and we have had problems with our Bowens Digital packs keeping up when they are approaching the top third of the output range.



Quote from: steve_d
This is my first post as I just joined, despite having been reading about Michael's work for years.

Background:  I am exclusively an amateur, having mostly used film SLR and DSLR with limited to no experience in professional lighting and large-format photography.

I have a requirement to do some large format scanning for digitally preserving some historic documents - mostly maps and some art work that a client wants captured at a fairly high resolution.  Some of the works are fragile and won't be available to be moved off-site or for using in a large flatbed scanner..... so this leaves large format digital photography.

Question:  Are there any companies or individuals in Atlantic Canada that have the equipment to do this type of work for me?

If not, I've examined the equipment rental options available and was trying to price out the insurance requirements for a PhaseOne P25 or PowerPhase FX with a Sinar 4x5 and appropriate lenses (thinking 300-400mm would work best), monitor calibration tools, several high W halogens, copy stand and camera frame/mount, etc.

Does anyone have recommendations before I proceed too far along this latter path?  Since I'm "fairly" certain this equipment isn't readily available in Atlantic Canada, I'm prepared to go with the rental option, but given my limited experience, will I encounter many problems in the "learning curve"?  If all goes well, I'd consider purchasing this type of equipment, but thought I'd gather some opinions first.
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Tim Keefe

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Geoffrey

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large format scanning
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2009, 09:42:55 am »

certainly there are digital solutions that could meet your need, and it would seem a hi res scanning back would do fine. On the other hand, please also consider a 4x5 camera, and photographing the works. Scanning a 4x5 neg givesyou lots of flexibility, and the setup/learning curve for film isn't so difficult. Just a thought.
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Kumar

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« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2009, 10:27:25 am »

Hi Steve,

The people at Betterlight can put you on the right path. Going through their website will get you to a point where you know what questions to ask

Hot lights may not be the right choice. The Alzo lights are a somewhat cheaper alternative to the Northlights that are the standard in this business. A 180 or 210 macro lens and a Betterlight would be just the ticket. Used scanbacks from Betterlight and PhaseOne show up often on eBay. Capture Integration has some PhaseOne scanbacks they might sell off at a very reasonable price - at least that's what Dave Gallagher says!

Given the right conditions, a scanback will blow any other capture medium out of the water.

Another alternative is to use a low cost pancake camera like the Fotoman with film and a good macro lens. The pancake design will eliminate the alignment hassles of a regular 4x5 camera's standards - though you still have to align the camera and artwork. This of course can be done only if there's a good lab with quick turnaround. There are the attendant hassles of scanning, etc.

If you'd prefer to get a professional to do the work for you, get in touch with Mike Collette at Betterlight who posts such requests on the Betterlight members' forum. You might then be able to watch how it's done and then you can buy your very own Betterlight!

Cheers,
Kumar
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Joe Behar

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large format scanning
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2009, 11:25:12 am »

Quote from: steve_d
This is my first post as I just joined, despite having been reading about Michael's work for years.

Background:  I am exclusively an amateur, having mostly used film SLR and DSLR with limited to no experience in professional lighting and large-format photography.

I have a requirement to do some large format scanning for digitally preserving some historic documents - mostly maps and some art work that a client wants captured at a fairly high resolution.  Some of the works are fragile and won't be available to be moved off-site or for using in a large flatbed scanner..... so this leaves large format digital photography.

Question:  Are there any companies or individuals in Atlantic Canada that have the equipment to do this type of work for me?

If not, I've examined the equipment rental options available and was trying to price out the insurance requirements for a PhaseOne P25 or PowerPhase FX with a Sinar 4x5 and appropriate lenses (thinking 300-400mm would work best), monitor calibration tools, several high W halogens, copy stand and camera frame/mount, etc.

Does anyone have recommendations before I proceed too far along this latter path?  Since I'm "fairly" certain this equipment isn't readily available in Atlantic Canada, I'm prepared to go with the rental option, but given my limited experience, will I encounter many problems in the "learning curve"?  If all goes well, I'd consider purchasing this type of equipment, but thought I'd gather some opinions first.

steve_d

Please feel free to contact me offline. We can make the arrangements for a rental or purchase. No border to cross and I definitely have experience in doing exactly what you want to do.


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schaubild

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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2009, 11:51:39 am »

Quote from: Joe Behar
steve_d

Please feel free to contact me offline. We can make the arrangements for a rental or purchase. No border to cross and I definitely have experience in doing exactly what you want to do.



You are aware of the fact that this thread is from 2005?    
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BobDavid

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« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2009, 11:54:32 am »

I like the Hasselblad CF39 MS solution for fine art repro. You'll need high-quality strobes (Elinchrom RX, Broncolor, Profoto) for optimal results. Scanning backs are passe.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2009, 11:56:23 am by BobDavid »
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Joe Behar

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« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2009, 12:07:24 pm »

Quote from: schaubild
You are aware of the fact that this thread is from 2005?    

Oops....

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