WhiteWall

[bbrantley]

Anyone have any recent experience with ordering face-mounted prints from WhiteWall?  They're a German company with a U.S. web front end.  I've had a lot of issues uploading my (large) images to them, and someone from Germany has been helping me once a day back and forth by email.  Ultimately, that person ran out of ability to understand what I'm asking, and the U.S. phone number always sends me to a dead end message ("we're open from 8 to 1 ET") even when it's, well, between 8 and 1 ET.

I like their size, breadth of product, and pricing, but I can't get anyone to help me, and I'm even more worried about customer service after the fact.  If everyone else has the same problem but ultimately has gotten good results, I'll feel better about sending in a completely automated order.

Many thanks.

[mbaginy]

Some five years ago our company (based in Israel) opened a new manufacturing site in Luxembourg.  I was asked to print some photos of the Negev desert for presention at the new site.  I chose Whitewall for printing since they have an excellent reputation are are fairly local to my home (in Germany).  I uploaded one jpg as a trial and had a 40x60 framed canval print made.  My colleagues and I were quite pleased so I followed up with 11 further images.

I was very pleased with the entire order and delivery process.  The prints were delivered directly to Luxembourg on a wooden pallet.  Packaging was very robust, delivery was quick, quality of images and framing was outstanding!

I'll be having more prints made for a local exhibition in 2016.  Whitewall will be my choice once more, for those images I don't print myself.  I can fully recommend them!

[bbrantley]

I can fully recommend them!

Thanks for the strong vote of confidence, Mike.  I appreciate it.  It jives with the (little) other data I can find out there on the internet.

I think they have a bug in the size limits for one of their face-mount products, and getting to a person to speak with, live, who understands what they actually do is tough.  I want to push the limits of their process, so I would prefer to go larger, but the setup tool doesn't enforce the same limits that their marketing copy on the site shows.  It's a little frustrating.  Maybe I will just place the order for the giant piece and see what happens. 

[mbaginy]

When questions arise, there’s nothing better than speaking with an agent directly.  Sadly, that’s becoming increasingly difficult in today’s business world.  Isn’t it odd, that with increased means of communication, companies seem to use these less (or not to its full potential)?  “Take what we offer and don’t ask questions”, seems their preferred method.  Sad, when cutting cost is placed above customer satisfaction.

Maybe your best bet would be to make an educated guess and hope for the best – as you had suggested.  Naturally that will be at a cost to you; I hope it works as envisioned, wish you success!

By the way, the print size I had mentioned (40x60) was in centimeters.  Canvas prints cover up a great deal of imperfections and camouflaged some of my early digital mistakes.

[bbrantley]

It turns out the supposed "bug" is that it is letting me select a much larger size than the description says I should be able to choose.  That larger size does correspond with a larger size allowed for a different product, and so either the tool is buggy or the description is wrong.

The good news is, I want to place the order for the much larger size.  If the tool is wrong, they probably will have a hard time making my (impossibly large) print.  On the other hand, if the description is wrong, I am a "winner." 

[mbaginy]

Keep us updated please, when you receive your print.  I wish you luck!

[bbrantley]

I thought I'd close the loop on this.  I ordered a 96" x 36" facemount on matte acrylic as a test print.  Their customer service rep and their marketing copy were both in error; the design tool had the correct dimensional limits set up for this process.  (Their capability is larger than what they say they can produce, in other words.)

The print arrived last week, dropped on my front porch by the freight company (I still don't know which one was used stateside) without so much as a doorbell ring and certainly not a signature.  This turned out to be unfortunate, because the whole crate/box was busted open on one side and there was a gash in the side as well!  

The print itself looks good to me.  Not Canon 12-color on baryta good, but plenty nice for my purposes.  Color seems to match the soft proof against their provided profile.  

Alas, it is bent, slightly!  Just enough that it won't hang quite right on the wall.  I shot them a note and a picture, and they immediately offered to re-print and send again.

In a few months, when I get the next copy and have it hung, I'll post an image of the final outcome.  I'm pleased so far, though, except for the huge lead time required.

[Mark Lindquist]

Thanks for updating - I've been wondering about Whitewall myself. 
It's a shame the print got damaged.

Shipping large items seems to have degraded so that rarely does even a wooden crate come without terrible scaring.

I hate seeing it, but on many occasions crates have arrived with a forklift fork pushed into them, or other sort of gash.  I've sent crates on to customers that have arrived in abysmal condition, but thankfully the prints were ok.

Shipping is becoming the Achilles heel of the process unfortunately.

Good to hear the print quality looks good however.

[framah]

...which is why whenever I build crate to  ship a customers artwork, I put handles on the box!!

[Mark Lindquist]

...which is why whenever I build crate to  ship a customers artwork, I put handles on the box!!

Yes.  I used to do that all the time when shipping smaller sculptures weighing 100+ pounds.

What kind of handles do you put on the crates?

I've made wooden handles where your hand could slip in and labeled them with paint, have put brass enclosed handles, aluminum fixed handles, most all of which got knocked off.

Ultimately, what became fool proof was heavy nylon rope knotted inside the crate fed through reinforced holes, and a loop dangling outside the crate.  Labeling with stenciling helped immensely.

I had forgotten about that.  Doh!!!

[bbrantley]

I'm not sure if handles would've helped this item.  It's just REALLY BIG and skinny, and I think it's kind of borderline in terms of structural viability for a shipping environment.  It's probably been forklifted a few times along the way, and I'd guess in places where the presence of handles wouldn't change the approach someone decided to take?

Here's what it looked like when it arrived:



Ugh.

[Mark Lindquist]

Ugh is right!  They should have used heavy 5/8" or 3/4" plywood on the sides, especially coming from such a long way.

What is that some kind of corrugated cardboard?  And staples?

Just not realistic.

I love how the shippers just leave it on the porch and never say anything.

Have had that exact same thing happen to me several times as well.

Shipping is the Achilles heel of the large size photo print business.

Ugh Ugh UGH!!!!!

[mbaginy]

Oh no!  That's a real shame.  I agree with Mark's remarks and his notes about shipping in general.  I've had problems recently with shipments going lost or being damaged - but never from Whitewall.

I guess the low-paid delivery drivers can't really be blamed.  Far too many industries seem to be going down hill (quality-wise) but their workers are paid minimum wages and can't really be blamed for not caring.  Very frustrating!  I was just stranded in Italy for six days because my AVIS rental car died and the Italian automobile club kept hanging up when I phoned - it was obvious, they simply didn't care.  Finally got the car towed today and a replacement car.  No doubt these fellows aren't highly paid and highly motivated employees.  Far too many simply don't seem to care anymore. 

But I would take Whitewall up on their offer, for the reprint.  And then hope for a better delivery.

[bbrantley]

It's time for chapter two of this saga.

Reprint arrived today, again with no signature or knock on the door from carrier.  That means no chance to inspect or sign, although I trust WW based on their reputation and how they responded before, so maybe that's okay.

The "crate" was the same construction you see above, and at least this time it appeared intact.  It was placed standing on end (tall) this time up against my front porch.  I noticed a couple of loose staples (they hold the cardboard to the 1x.5's that form the "frame") but nothing too bad.

When I opened the box, I was initially pretty impressed, until I stood the print up.  Then I saw this:



Epic fail!

I decided to try hanging it on my wall just for kicks.  It was then that I saw this other issue:



The curvature there creates a little over an inch of offset in the aluminum mounting brace on the back of the dibond.  This makes it impossible to hang.  I'm kind of glad the corner is messed up, because otherwise I'd be facing the dilemma of whether to try to "bend" the whole thing back to flat somehow.

I've fired off another email to WW to see what they think.  At this point, I'm starting to suspect that they just don't ship much acrylic at this size to USA customers.  (This print alone was about $1400 after discount, plus how many people have space for one 8-foot-wide print?  I could see a gallery or installation ordering a bunch of these, but then that might justify a real crate.)  I think your comments about insufficient crating have got to be the problem here.

But wait, there's more!  The real conundrum is that, prior to this print coming in, I went ahead and ordered seven more acrylic prints.  I love the product despite the early troubles, and there was a sale that ended Sunday that I wanted to take advantage of.  I do have one more print ordered that is almost this area (a little less width and a touch taller), but I also have one 125"-long beast that is only 18 inches tall.  (I think 11 feet is roughly their process limit.)  

And all seven prints shipped for $59.95.  :-)

Rest assured, then, there will be at least a Chapter Three.  I'm crossing my fingers that I've just been unlucky and that we'll reach a good outcome.

[Mark Lindquist]

Wow - what a disappointment. 

Maybe you could suggest to them that they might consider a heavy wooden crate with handles would do better.

I can't believe how badly shipping companies are doing with objects this size.

Good to know about this problem with Whitewall.  A real shame.

It seems obvious that they need to step up their crating efforts.

I wonder if Fed-X freight might not be a better choice of shipper?

[jferrari]

Mishandling cargo is job security for the shippers involved. I'm assuming that there is no/minimal insurance due to no signature required. Jack up the insurance value to 5k and see what shape the piece shows up in.   - Jim

[mbaginy]

It's time for chapter two of this saga.

Bummer.  I hope chapter 3 will bring a happy ending to that drama.