Z3200 Prints Not Centering-What am I doing wrong?

[Mark Lindquist]

I've been through the border problem with several printers in the past - never w/ an HP, though
Check "center image" in the driver and print.
Pete

NEVER WITH AN HP THOUGH

Thanks for the input Pete.  if you try this on an HP Z Series (Z3100, Z3200) you will start talking to yourself within just a few minutes   

[Mark Lindquist]

Well voilà!  Qimage works!  Print centered and placed wherever I want it.  Enrst was right again. 

So simple, not hard to understand and amazingly accurate.

Only problem is, I am using it on a virtual machine on my mac and I really don't think the monitor will calibrate.

Wow - this makes it a game changer.  Could be going back to  PC for just printing might do the trick.

Question for anyone reading this that knows about Qimage:

Can you just print an image that has been already edited without calibrating the monitor?  Or does Qimage require a calibrated monitor to work correctly with color managed images?

Thanks Ernst, and Geraldo - (and everyone who has responded).

HP Drivers will NOT let you center an image on a Sheet! Just to make a point.  Prove me wrong!

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Question for anyone reading this that knows about Qimage:

Can you just print an image that has been already edited without calibrating the monitor?  Or does Qimage require a calibrated monitor to work correctly with color managed images?

Hi Mark,

Qimage will take the profile of the input file, and convert the file to the output profile after resampling and (smart) output sharpening. Only if you want to softproof before printing you would need to set your display profile to the correct one, but that display profile is not part of the conversion to the print output itself.

Cheers,
Bart

[Mark Lindquist]

That's great to know Bart - I'm printing with Qimage more and more, now.  The several prints I've made look fine - comparable, but centered  

Appreciate your response -

Best-

Mark

[Geraldo Garcia]

That is good news Mark!

You can adjust and softproof on PS/LR and use Qimage just for printing.
I use it only for layout, up-sampling, print sharpening and, obviously, printing. None of that requires calibrated monitor or softproofing abilities.
It has some very nice features and once you get the feel of it Qimage makes your life easier.
My favorite feature? The "automated Job log". Today I printed more than 50 large images of different clients on different papers and sizes. As all images were reprints (luckily) I had to set nothing at all! Just searched for the printed jobs (some from last week, some from six months ago), loaded the specified paper and printed.
Make sure to check Mike's forum for news, tips, troubleshooting and feature request.
Good luck!

[Mark Lindquist]

Yes it is good news Geraldo, thanks !

What an amazingly powerful piece of software for so little money.  That thing is robust!

Still getting to know it, and you're right, it is a tad on the frustrating side to begin with.

Pity they have no plans to develop it for Mac, but that would require a whole rebuild.

Oh well a few extra steps for quality assurance won't kill me.

[Mark Lindquist]

I just found this quote from a thread here in printers-papers- inks from many years back:

"...neil snape:
I love it. I suggested HP buy the company and build Qimage into the drivers. They didn't so you still have to use a PC, and fortunately you can still use it with most any printer.

It is simply great...."   ( Source )

Would have been great for HP, but then others wouldn't be able to use Qimage today.

edit:  added source

[Pete Berry]

NEVER WITH AN HP THOUGH

Thanks for the input Pete.  if you try this on an HP Z Series (Z3100, Z3200) you will start talking to yourself within just a few minutes   

Their drivers certainly seem to have earned their infamy!

If the width offset is constant between different paper sizes and is a matter of several mm, the minimal printable border issue would be the prime suspect. Then simply adding the offset measurement in canvas to the proper side of the image should be a usable driver work-around.

Pete

[Mark Lindquist]

I've been through the border problem with several printers in the past - never w/ an HP, though - but the below workflow has always worked:

1) Forget setting a blank canvas size to paper size, as this throws you into the unprintable border problem, as canvas is considered printable area. Use "canvas" only for a specific reason such as a stroke around the image or colored margin.

2) Don't try to "set" borders manually - again you're in the minefield of the printer's unprintable margins - unless you want to set asymmetrical borders.

3) Establish your borders by simply sizing the image to give you the border widths you want - eg. 9x15" @ 300ppi - for 1" borders all round on 11x17" paper.

4) Check "center image" in the driver and print.

Pete

Their drivers certainly seem to have earned their infamy!

If the width offset is constant between different paper sizes and is a matter of several mm, the minimal printable border issue would be the prime suspect. Then simply adding the offset measurement in canvas to the proper side of the image should be a usable driver work-around.

Pete

OoooooooKaaaaaaay....
Now I'm confused.  At first you're saying "don't" or "never", but now you're saying "do"?
I have a tendency to take the first advice- it is a minefield....LOL
Not so with Qimage, though.  Piece of cake.

-Mark

[Pete Berry]

OoooooooKaaaaaaay....
Now I'm confused.  At first you're saying "don't" or "never", but now you're saying "do"?
I have a tendency to take the first advice- it is a minefield....LOL
Not so with Qimage, though.  Piece of cake.

-Mark

Although the HP driver certainly seems flawed in centering, I'm assuming that it's not capricious in it's error - simply a bit diabolical! - leaving a work-around possible.

You've never mentioned the magnitude of error, Mark,or whether it's consistent among different paper sizes. Like I said, if it's only a few mm's it's likely the minimum printable border, and the canvas addition should work. It might even be worth trying to solve the driver centering conundrum if nothing else.

Pete

[Mark Lindquist]

Pete,
So you're saying create a canvas, let's say 11x17, with an image say 9x15 centered on it, then add the difference, say 3/16" to the right (assuming the image is centered left 3/16" off center), and print borderless?

For the sake of discussion, let's say the above mentioned size is printing off center to the right, by 3/16".

What would your settings be?

Either 9 x 15 centered, or 11x17 borderless for hypotheticals.

Assuming 3/16" = .1875" = 4.765mm

Or are you saying simply move the image 3/16" to the right on the canvas

-Mark

PS - I believe each paper size is off a different amount, but I'll check.

You'll notice, no one on this forum has stepped up and said:
"Oh, yeah, my HP Z Series printer automatically centers sheets no problem" unless they are using Qimage or another specialized printing software.  

You are at a disadvantage however, not ever having used one.  Your hypothetical argument might work, but I hate screwing around adjusting images right or left when:
1. They should print correctly to begin with, and
2. Qimage just does it, and has many advantages.

[Pete Berry]

Pete,
So you're saying create a canvas, let's say 11x17, with an image say 9x15 centered on it, then add the difference, say 3/16" to the right (assuming the image is centered left 3/16" off center), and print borderless?

For the sake of discussion, let's say the above mentioned size is printing off center to the right, by 3/16".

What would your settings be?

Either 9 x 15 centered, or 11x17 borderless for hypotheticals.

Assuming 3/16" = .1875" = 4.765mm

Or are you saying simply move the image 3/16" to the right on the canvas

-Mark

PS - I believe each paper size is off a different amount, but I'll check.

You'll notice, no one on this forum has stepped up and said:
"Oh, yeah, my HP Z Series printer automatically centers sheets no problem" unless they are using Qimage or another specialized printing software.  

You are at a disadvantage however, not ever having used one.  Your hypothetical argument might work, but I hate screwing around adjusting images right or left when:
1. They should print correctly to begin with, and
2. Qimage just does it, and has many advantages.

Mark, I'm using "canvas" in the PS sense of materially enlarging any or all borders of an image, and which is considered a printable area by the printer (may be colored, patterned, etc). In the case of your 9x16 image, adding a 3/16" white canvas to the right side, as the image is offset to the right by that amount, you say.

The screen capture should be self-evident on an image I've sized to 9x16 + 0.187 = 9.187 width. If this does reflect the min. printable margin on the left side, it should work with any paper size.

Creating a canvas the size of the paper always leads to centering problems in my experience, and serves no useful purpose if left clear.

Pete

[Mark Lindquist]

OK Pete -
First a little back story.  I have begun printing on sheets recently and on this new to me Z3200 24" printer.

Normally I print on rolls, and much larger images, with a Z3200ps 44".

So now, just trying to understand why the Z3200 print driver will not center the image, I just printed an image, sized 9" x 13.549 at 300 PPI.  That would make 1" borders left and right.

This surprised me completely.  Printing straight out of photoshop onto an 11" x 17" (tabloid) sheet, this printer driver actually ENLARGED the image by 5/32 of an inch.  I can not believe it.  Here I thought the margins were shifted, but apparently the driver somehow enlarges the image and throws the image centering off.  The left margin is exactly 1" and the right margin is .8437 (1" minus 5/32").

I had planned to try adding the amount the margin was off to the image via your suggestion, but now I am really stumped.  This is NOT making sense.

See the screen grab of the print dialog box of one of my abstracts.

-Mark

[Pete Berry]

OK Pete -
First a little back story.  I have begun printing on sheets recently and on this new to me Z3200 24" printer.

Normally I print on rolls, and much larger images, with a Z3200ps 44".

So now, just trying to understand why the Z3200 print driver will not center the image, I just printed an image, sized 9" x 13.549 at 300 PPI.  That would make 1" borders left and right.

This surprised me completely.  Printing straight out of photoshop onto an 11" x 17" (tabloid) sheet, this printer driver actually ENLARGED the image by 5/32 of an inch.  I can not believe it.  Here I thought the margins were shifted, but apparently the driver somehow enlarges the image and throws the image centering off.  The left margin is exactly 1" and the right margin is .8437 (1" minus 5/32").

I had planned to try adding the amount the margin was off to the image via your suggestion, but now I am really stumped.  This is NOT making sense.

See the screen grab of the print dialog box of one of my abstracts.

-Mark

Well that's bizarre, with all the right boxes checked to prevent driver scaling.

Have you measured both dimensions of the printed image to confirm that it has been up-scaled in both axes the same percentage - which by my calc. is about 1.75% - giving about 13 25/32" height?

In re-thinking the added side canvas possible work-around, the proper canvas width should be only 1/2 the total error, as you are increasing the shorted side while decreasing the other.

Pete

[Mark Lindquist]

Well that's bizarre, with all the right boxes checked to prevent driver scaling.

Have you measured both dimensions of the printed image to confirm that it has been up-scaled in both axes the same percentage - which by my calc. is about 1.75% - giving about 13 25/32" height?

In re-thinking the added side canvas possible work-around, the proper canvas width should be only 1/2 the total error, as you are increasing the shorted side while decreasing the other.

Pete

Yes, correct.  You are correct regarding the height - it is 13 25/32" printed when it is 13 7/32 image size.

What do you suggest now Pete?

If the driver is interpolating automatically, it would seem almost hopeless to get a correct print under any circumstances.  I never really checked this deeply into the driver and the actual specifics of the output.

I don't make a habit of blaming error on devices, generally I expect that it is pilot error, which I am still concerned about, but in this case, it does seem very odd, and points to the driver, especially when Qimage does print perfectly centered.

I would be still interested in your workaround ideas at this point, if you are still up for more punishment, LOL.

I never like to quit on a problem without finding a solution, but I'm about to throw in the towel on this.

[Pete Berry]

Yes, correct.  You are correct regarding the height - it is 13 25/32" printed when it is 13 7/32 image size.

What do you suggest now Pete?

If the driver is interpolating automatically, it would seem almost hopeless to get a correct print under any circumstances.  I never really checked this deeply into the driver and the actual specifics of the output.

I don't make a habit of blaming error on devices, generally I expect that it is pilot error, which I am still concerned about, but in this case, it does seem very odd, and points to the driver, especially when Qimage does print perfectly centered.

I would be still interested in your workaround ideas at this point, if you are still up for more punishment, LOL.

I never like to quit on a problem without finding a solution, but I'm about to throw in the towel on this.

I suppose you could scale the image to 98.25% in the driver and see if the image is still off-centered at or near the original 9" width. And if still off, adding 1/2 the error in canvas to the short side.

If you haven't tried deleting the driver and re-installing the latest version, it's worth a try, as the gremlins within are having a hay day now!

Pete

[Geraldo Garcia]

Mark,

I just performed a quick test on my side (printer Z3200ps 44", PCL driver, Windows 8.1, PS CC2014):

1) Created a new file 16x24cm (gray background).
2) I didn't  bother to set canvas size to fit the paper.
3) On the print window I selected A4 (21x29,7cm) size paper and "clip contents by margin"
4) Loaded the paper (not very carefully) and printed.

The result was almost perfect. The margins were a bit off (1mm or so) probably due to a slightly incorrect load (as I said previously this printer does not compensate for that as some other do), but the gray rectangle is exactly 16x24cm.

Just for the sake of asking, have you checked and option named like "resizing/scaling options" on the driver? It should be set as "original size/no scaling" or something like that.

[Mark Lindquist]

Hey Geraldo-
Thanks for doing a physical print- nice to have some concrete evidence that it will work with at least one OS.

Unfortunately, my primary system is a Mac Pro Tower, and I can almost guarantee it won't work.  I will definitely take your advice and check out the settings even more carefully just to be sure.

This printer is a revision A type, (which I believe is PC) and I am using the Mac to print on it.  Could be therein lies a problem.  What is weird is that I just installed Windows 7 on a virtual machine (had an unopened Windows 7 kicking around) and while it installed perfectly, the danged "synchronize paper profiles" in Paper Preset Management is grey'd out and innacessible in color center in HP Utility.  I just calibrated a paper and made and installed a custom profile in color center, however, and it shows up in the Mac Color Center.  Synchrnize papers just won't work, even after unistall and reinstall, shut down, reboot, etc..  Ugh.

The point of installing Windows on my Mac is to be able to print using Qimage, which is not suported by any Mac OS.  I don't plan on duplicating PS and LR on Windows as well, at least not at this point.

I would prefer to just do it all on my Mac, but no way have I been able to get a sheet image centered with the HP driver for Mac.  

Again, thanks Geraldo, and Pete for your input.  The Mac is a horse of a different color, I'm afraid.

-Mark

EDIT:
Have gotten "Synchronize Paper Settings" working in Windows 7.  See:

http://http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=95679.0