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Author Topic: C1 8.0.2 delay in adjustments at 100%  (Read 4874 times)

pemihan

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C1 8.0.2 delay in adjustments at 100%
« on: November 23, 2014, 03:11:20 am »

I'm on a 2010 3.33 GHz six core Mac Pro with 32gb RAM and SSD PCI bootdrive where my session folder resides.
My images are on ordinary hard drives in the bays in the machine.

My GPU is a ATI Radeon HD 5770 1024 MB.

I have Hardware Acceleration (OpenCL) in C1 set to never.

If I want to make adjustments on an image at 100% there is an annoying delay in showing the effect. If I don't zoom in everything is smooth.
I have tried to set Hardware Acceleration (OpenCL) on Auto but then I have delays all the time.

Is the 100% delay something that possibly could be solved by upgrading my GPU to for instance a AMD Sapphire HD 7950 3 GB Mac Edition ?
Or is there something else to blame for the it?

Thanks
Peter
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 07:22:28 am by pemihan »
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deejjjaaaa

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Re: C1 8.0.2 delay in adjustments at 100%
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2014, 03:35:36 am »

My GPU is a ATI Radeon HD 5770 1024 MB.

the latest list of dGPUs supported by P1 was published for C7 in June 2014 = http://www.phaseone.com/en/search/article.aspx?articleid=1720&languageid=1 and it seems that it does not list AMD HD 5000 series... so may be that's where the issue is

AMD:
Dual AMD FirePro D300 (Mac Pro)
Dual AMD FirePro D500 (Mac Pro)
Dual AMD FirePro D700 (Mac Pro)

Radeon R100 (7xxx) Series
Radeon R200 (8xxx, 9xxx) Series
Radeon R300 Series
Radeon R400 Series
Radeon R500 (X1xxx) Series
Radeon R600 (HD 2xxx, HD 3xxx) Series

HD9000 series
HD8000 series,
HD7000 series,
HD6000 series,
HD7000M series,
HD6000M series

a quick search also shows (albeit that was in 2009) = http://www.geeks3d.com/20091014/radeon-hd-5770-has-no-double-precision-floating-point-support/

and AMD specs shows that the card supports (with the current drivers) only OpenCL v1.0

« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 03:53:25 am by deejjjaaaa »
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pemihan

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Re: C1 8.0.2 delay in adjustments at 100%
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2014, 03:40:52 am »

the latest list of dGPUs supported by P1 was published for C7 in June 2014 = http://www.phaseone.com/en/search/article.aspx?articleid=1720&languageid=1 and it seems that it does not list AMD HD 5000 series... so may be that's where the issue is

AMD:
Dual AMD FirePro D300 (Mac Pro)
Dual AMD FirePro D500 (Mac Pro)
Dual AMD FirePro D700 (Mac Pro)

Radeon R100 (7xxx) Series
Radeon R200 (8xxx, 9xxx) Series
Radeon R300 Series
Radeon R400 Series
Radeon R500 (X1xxx) Series
Radeon R600 (HD 2xxx, HD 3xxx) Series

HD9000 series
HD8000 series,
HD7000 series,
HD6000 series,
HD7000M series,
HD6000M series

That's true, but as I understand it this list is only for compatibility with OpenCL.
I have this 100% delay issue when OpenCL is turned off.

I will probably upgrade my GPU anyhow, but would like to find out why I'm having this 100% delay issue first.

Thanks
Peter
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 04:41:17 am by pemihan »
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Malcolm Payne

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Re: C1 8.0.2 delay in adjustments at 100%
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2014, 06:59:03 am »

I currently have a case running with Phase One regarding slider lag in C1 8.x on my main editing machine, and I have seen a similar report elsewhere, so it looks as if this latest version may realistically need some form of GPU acceleration as a minimum for optimum performance (though it's possible that the latest generation(s) of CPU might compensate for this to some extent.) The lag is noticeably worse than with v7.x, so it appears that something has changed in the v8 coding; Phase One themselves say "The update may effect [sic] speed overall as the new software is looking for more resources", though they also go on to say that they haven't observed the effect in a lower spec. machine.

My own system has a 6-core i7-980x Extreme Edition CPU running at the stock speed of 3.33GHz; not the latest, but by no means slow. However, the graphics card on this machine is an entry-level NVidia Quadro FX580, which has basic support for Open CL but does not meet the minimum spec. to enable this in C1, and I suspect this may be where the problem lies, though it has proven adequate until now. The slider lag on this machine is not so slow as to be unusable, but sufficiently so in some instances to be irritating.

Further testing on my laptop, which has a GeForce GT650M graphics card that does support OpenCL in C1, shows the response to be quite smooth with GPU acceleration enabled for the display, but the difference with display acceleration disabled is quite dramatic, with jerky and laggy response to slider adjustments. Both machines max out the CPU 100% during slider adjustment (in v8: less so in v7), but the experience with the laptop suggests this is probably not the primary bottleneck and that GPU performance is increasingly important.

I am considering upgrading the GPU in the main machine to either a Quadro K2200 or a K4200 (I reproduce artwork professionally, so ideally need the 30-bit output of the Quadros); Phase One's suggestion was that the K2200 should be sufficient, with the K4200 providing additional performance that may be better but possibly isn't needed. I'm awaiting their feedback on the latest results of the laptop tests, so will update with any further information or suggestions as received.

As an aside, I recently tested PhotoZoom Pro v6, which now supports Open CL, and the processing speed on my editing machine with Open CL enabled was substantially slower than with it disabled - it appears that if the Open CL performance is insufficient, the overhead involved in shuffling data between the CPU and the GPU actually causes a drop in performance. That may be where your additional delays are occurring when you have Open CL enabled.
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pemihan

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Re: C1 8.0.2 delay in adjustments at 100%
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2014, 02:16:44 pm »

Thanks Malcolm.

I have opened a support case with P1, will post what ever comes of it..

Peter
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allegretto

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Re: C1 8.0.2 delay in adjustments at 100%
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2014, 08:14:27 pm »

Very "plain" MBP - 13" Retina;

3.0 GHz Intel Core i7
8G 1600 RAM DDR3
512 Flash HD
Intel HD Graphics 4000 1024 MB

Run Open CL and I got to hand it to CO for the fix on 8.0.1  it is faster than 7.x by multiples on my machine. Actually pretty darn fast. Better than I expected...!

I'm back with CO now... off LR 5.6 though 5.7 just came out but I don't expect much difference

Love the open architecture of CO I have a couple custom Tool Tabs with my typical tools added.. it is now a real monster.

On the dark side it has crashed a couple of times, but nearly as much as 7.x just a couple times in the past few weeks. Heck even LR occasionally crashes.

A BIG SHOUT OUT to CO from me...! This rings the bell...!


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Malcolm Payne

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Re: C1 8.0.2 delay in adjustments at 100%
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2014, 04:26:14 am »

Hi Peter,

I also found this, which may be of interest:
https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/tech-tips/computer-upgrades

It's written for Macs, but the general principles are mainly system-agnostic. Note particularly the section on GPUs, especially: "The GPU, or Graphics Card, is used in Capture One in rendering the preview while the user adjusts the image. So when you grab the exposure slider and drag it higher the extent to which the reaction of the image is instant and smooth depends largely on the GPU." That certainly describes my issue, and possibly also yours. Unfortunately I haven't seen anywhere a minimum GPU spec for real-time response.

The preview size also has a bearing on how quickly the display responds to changes - if it's too small, ISTR the changes are updated on the full-size image rather than the smaller proxy, hence the delay. I don't have the link to hand, but I believe the details were in one of Phase One's own technical notes.

Cheers,

Malcolm
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pemihan

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Re: C1 8.0.2 delay in adjustments at 100%
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2014, 08:21:24 am »

Thanks gain Malcolm, very helpful...
I will most likely upgrade my GPU and see if that helps.
Regarding the previews they are as big as my monitor resolution..

Peter
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Jimmy D Uptain

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Re: C1 8.0.2 delay in adjustments at 100%
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2014, 08:49:55 pm »

Hey Peter, I have been having issues with the catalog so I haven't been able to test for ya till today.
Still have my catalog problems, however I did check things.
My system is similar to yours (almost identical) with less ram.
I have a 7950 Mac edition card and the issue you are taking about is non existent on my particular system.
Now you didn't mention the kind of images you are dealing with so I went to my D800E images which are the biggest I have.
No problems with the 800E at 100%
They were a little less snappy until I turned the Harware Acceleration support on. Then it was as fluid as I remembered it to be.
If you want me to test your files, I'll be happy to.
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deejjjaaaa

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Re: C1 8.0.2 delay in adjustments at 100%
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2014, 09:15:47 pm »

I have a 7950 Mac edition card and the issue you are taking about is non existent on my particular system.
he has 5770
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pemihan

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Re: C1 8.0.2 delay in adjustments at 100%
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2014, 02:57:35 am »

Hey Peter, I have been having issues with the catalog so I haven't been able to test for ya till today.
Still have my catalog problems, however I did check things.
My system is similar to yours (almost identical) with less ram.
I have a 7950 Mac edition card and the issue you are taking about is non existent on my particular system.
Now you didn't mention the kind of images you are dealing with so I went to my D800E images which are the biggest I have.
No problems with the 800E at 100%
They were a little less snappy until I turned the Harware Acceleration support on. Then it was as fluid as I remembered it to be.
If you want me to test your files, I'll be happy to.


Thanks Jimmy,

I actually just yesterday ordered a 7950 GPU which I should get tomorrow, so hopefully that will solve the issue. I'm dealing with IQ160 images so my existing 5770 GPU might be somewhat underpowered.
If the problem persists it would be great if you could test a file for me, I'll let you know.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 25, 2014, 03:10:25 am by pemihan »
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: C1 8.0.2 delay in adjustments at 100%
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2014, 06:46:40 am »

I actually just yesterday ordered a 7950 GPU which I should get tomorrow, so hopefully that will solve the issue. I'm dealing with IQ160 images so my existing 5770 GPU might be somewhat underpowered.
If the problem persists it would be great if you could test a file for me, I'll let you know.

Hi Peter,

Also always make sure you have the latest driver versions installed. Modern graphic cards have frequent driver updates which can sometimes improve performance a lot (i.e. double digit percentages). How that interacts with the reset of the software environment is hard to predict.

Cheers,
Bart
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== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Jimmy D Uptain

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Re: C1 8.0.2 delay in adjustments at 100%
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2014, 06:52:08 pm »

Hi Peter,

Also always make sure you have the latest driver versions installed. Modern graphic cards have frequent driver updates which can sometimes improve performance a lot (i.e. double digit percentages). How that interacts with the reset of the software environment is hard to predict.

Cheers,
Bart

Hey Bart, with the 7950, its pretty much on Apple to handle the drivers.
I have yet to see a driver update, and believe me, I check.
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pemihan

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Re: C1 8.0.2 delay in adjustments at 100%
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2014, 02:58:04 am »

Thanks Bart, but I think Jimmy is right... In the PC world it might be different..
Anyway, my 7950 is out for delivery, so I'll know later today if it makes a difference in my case.

Peter
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pemihan

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Re: C1 8.0.2 delay in adjustments at 100%
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2014, 04:13:30 pm »

Allright, the HD 7950 arrived today and I just installed it and turned Open CL on in Capture One and everything seems to be running absolutely smooth now..  ;D
So obviously the 5770 wasn't up for the task...!

Peter
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Jimmy D Uptain

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Re: C1 8.0.2 delay in adjustments at 100%
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2014, 04:19:15 pm »

Woohoo!!!

Glad you are up and going.
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pemihan

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Re: C1 8.0.2 delay in adjustments at 100%
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2014, 04:26:43 pm »

Thanks Jimmy...

As a side bonus the whole machine seems more snappy now, in web browsing and finder and such. Even the cursor seems to have more energy now  ;D ;D ;D
I got the card from OWC, a shame I'm not in the US as they offer a $140 trade in on the 5770 which would make the total upgrade $355! Oh well, even for $495 it's a no brainer!

Peter
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 04:41:07 pm by pemihan »
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pemihan

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Re: C1 8.0.2 delay in adjustments at 100%
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2014, 10:21:25 am »

Ow well, today my new HD 7950 just died after less that 8 hours use, so I'm back to the HD 5770 again..
Does anyone have experience with using a Geforce GTX 780? in a Mac Pro?

Peter
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