Teledyne-Dalsa 80mp sensor discontinued?

[Theodoros]

https://www.teledynedalsa.com/imaging/products/sensors/selector/?model=AreaScan

The 80mp MF sensor that is used on P1 & Leaf MFDBs is no longer listed in Teledyne/Dalsa list of products, the highest resolution offering is now only the traditional 60mp sensor that is used on the second in the line MFDBs. Does this mean that there will be no more 80mp backs?

[yaya]

The 80MP sensor was never on that list...no conspiracy theory...

[Theodoros]

The 80MP sensor was never on that list...no conspiracy theory...

Who ever mentioned "conspiracy" Yair? ...Do you know why 80mp sensor is not listed and can you (please) share with us the reasoning on "why" it is not listed? ...if you know (being Leaf's representative in this forum) that is.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

If DALSA is not selling the 80 MP sensor to the public they have no reason to list it. Yair is probably right.

There may be speculation about Phase One switching to CMOS sensors, but I think I have seen some message clearly stating no more CMOS sensor before year 2016.

We may have a better indication where Phase One is going once they show a roadmap.

Best regards
Erik

https://www.teledynedalsa.com/imaging/products/sensors/selector/?model=AreaScan

The 80mp MF sensor that is used on P1 & Leaf MFDBs is no longer listed in Teledyne/Dalsa list of products, the highest resolution offering is now only the traditional 60mp sensor that is used on the second in the line MFDBs. Does this mean that there will be no more 80mp backs?

[eronald]

I think Sony draws the roadmap - Phase just prints it and sells it

Edmund

Hi,

If DALSA is not selling the 80 MP sensor to the public they have no reason to list it. Yair is probably right.

There may be speculation about Phase One switching to CMOS sensors, but I think I have seen some message clearly stating no more CMOS sensor before year 2016.

We may have a better indication where Phase One is going once they show a roadmap.

Best regards
Erik

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Could be the case, or could not. The only thing we know for sure that Phase indicated no high MP CMOS back before 2016.

Leica has financed development of a CMOS chip for the M (Typ 240) and now reused that design for S (Typ 007). That sensor was fabbed STMicroelectronics. Phase One could take the same route. DALSA may develop large CMOS sensors, who knows.

Personally, I ask myself why Sony developed the 44x33 sensor. Is it intended solely for the MFD market or will Sony use it internally?

Best regards
Erik

I think Sony draws the roadmap - Phase just prints it and sells it

Edmund

[ondebanks]

The 80MP sensor was never on that list...no conspiracy theory...

Indeed. The 60MP sensor was only added to the list a number of years after Phase, Leaf and Hasselblad had already been using it. At that point, Dalsa probably decided to make it available/visible to additional potential customers because they were able to produce more than the MFD market required and wanted to continue leveraging the design for extra income.

There may also have been a deal struck with the MFD integrators to have some exclusive proprietary period over the sensor...I dunno. What is do know is that since Phase switched from Kodak to Dalsa, Dalsa have held back on releasing datasheets for the CCDs that Phase adopt. Further evidence comes from the fact that the one CCD that Phase et al. did not adopt (the 48MP, 6 micron, microlensed one) went straight up on the Dalsa website years ago.

In the years that followed, we had no information from any source that the 48MP sensor was in fact a mini version of the 60MP sensor (or maxi version of the 40MP one), which led to the universal (but mistaken) belief that the 40MP and 65MP CCDs had no microlenses. Their generally good behaviour with tech-cam wideangles reinforced this belief too.

Ray

[Theodoros]

Indeed. The 60MP sensor was only added to the list a number of years after Phase, Leaf and Hasselblad had already been using it. At that point, Dalsa probably decided to make it available/visible to additional potential customers because they were able to produce more than the MFD market required and wanted to continue leveraging the design for extra income.

There may also have been a deal struck with the MFD integrators to have some exclusive proprietary period over the sensor...I dunno. What is do know is that since Phase switched from Kodak to Dalsa, Dalsa have held back on releasing datasheets for the CCDs that Phase adopt. Further evidence comes from the fact that the one CCD that Phase et al. did not adopt (the 48MP, 6 micron, microlensed one) went straight up on the Dalsa website years ago.

In the years that followed, we had no information from any source that the 48MP sensor was in fact a mini version of the 60MP sensor (or maxi version of the 40MP one), which led to the universal (but mistaken) belief that the 40MP and 65MP CCDs had no microlenses. Their generally good behaviour with tech-cam wideangles reinforced this belief too.

Ray

Are you saying that the 48mp sensor that Sinar uses on its 86H and Exact have micro lenses on? ...I was informed different when I called Sinar on the subject... Are you sure this is the case? ...Multishot (the purpose for having a Sinarback) doesn't need any micro lenses as to limit moire down to negligible... and Sinar (who uses the 48mp sensor exclusively) only makes cameras with movements which would benefit further (even in single shot) if micro lenses where absent...

[ondebanks]

Are you saying that the 48mp sensor that Sinar uses on its 86H and Exact have micro lenses on? ...I was informed different when I called Sinar on the subject... Are you sure this is the case?

The standard FTF6080C and FTF6080M sensors both have "Micro-lenses with wide angular response". This was quite a big technological achievement for Dalsa, who published a paper on it. There is the possibility that Dalsa made a special version without microlenses for Sinar, but it's more likely that when you talked to Sinar, they meant that the sensor did not have "traditional" microlenses which cause problems with steeply converging light.

...Multishot (the purpose for having a Sinarback) doesn't need any micro lenses as to limit moire down to negligible...

The purpose of micro lenses here is more to improve quantum efficiency (divert light away from the anodes and the overflow drains, into the sensitive area), than to reduce moire.

and Sinar (who uses the 48mp sensor exclusively) only makes cameras with movements which would benefit further (even in single shot) if micro lenses where absent...

That's true, but all the manufacturers seem to be sanguine about the interaction of these wide angular response microlenses with lens movements. For example, the P40+/IQ140/Credo40 and P65+/IQ160/Credo60 are not on the "blacklist" of microlensed backs to avoid in that domain, although users do sometimes encounter relatively mild issues.

Ray

[ErikKaffehr]

Ray,

Interesting document, thanks for sharing!

Best regards
Erik

The standard FTF6080C and FTF6080M sensors both have "Micro-lenses with wide angular response". This was quite a big technological achievement for Dalsa, who published a paper on it. There is the possibility that Dalsa made a special version without microlenses for Sinar, but it's more likely that when you talked to Sinar, they meant that the sensor did not have "traditional" microlenses which cause problems with steeply converging light.

[Wayne Fox]

Wasn't the 80 mm sensor co developed by phase and Dalsa?  If so it seems very likely that Dalsa would be restricted to produce it only for phase until some predetermined point in time or development of a replacement. . Not surprising it isn't on the list.