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bob mccarthy

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« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2005, 11:40:42 am »

I just reread the entire thread. I think we're having fun spending your money. You need a step up camera from your point and shoot. The D50 was an excellent recomendation.

Use it, let your skill level grow and if you outgrow the camera, step up to the latest digital 2 years from now. With all consumer electronics you'll get far better value out in the future. The D50 is highly capable and will help you learn rather than spank you with poor output which will likely be the case with a pro camera without the requisite  skill level. The best equipment does not make up for lack of training. If anything it will be far worse as the camera is less forgiving.

The printer is also a device that takes conciderable skill. Starts with Photoshop skills (exposure/image optimization,etc), plug in skills (noise reduction/sharpening), printing skills (perceptual or relative colormetric, uprezzing, profiles, soft proofing) and you have a lot to digest.

I would recommend a D50, upgraded kit lens (18-70 ED or a 17-55DX), a HP 30. If you get a great capture and it begs to be larger than 13x19, send out the file to a pro lab and you will get a print that will be better than any your likely to be able to produce at home.

I would suggest getting a movie poster which is likely 24x36 and holding it up. Add hmmmm 6 inches of matte around it and then a frame. Unless you live in a 10,000 sq ft home, it will be hard to find a place for it. Even then it will dominate the room.

Bob
« Last Edit: December 15, 2005, 12:54:43 pm by bob mccarthy »
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Lisa Nikodym

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« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2005, 02:19:28 pm »

Just to reemphasize something Bob mentioned:  For very large prints (about 13"x19" or bigger), if you're using pretty much any decent DSLR, you will generally be limited more by your skill than by the camera, and you will need a good tripod.  Snapshots are rarely going to look good that enlarged.

Lisa
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scuppy007

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« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2005, 10:56:27 pm »

Thanks for all the advise.  The best advise has been to talk me out of the printer I thought I wanted.  I am so amazed by my granddaughter that I thought bigger would be better   but I can see where I was wrong.  I have looked online for the HP DJ30...?  I can't find it retail.  Any suggestions?

I believe the Nikon D200 might be the camera for me.  I like the price much better than the Canon and I believe it would be all the camera I would need.  It seems the most recommended lens is the 18-200vr due out late this month?  

I haven't heard any suggestions about classes to take in the North Atlanta area? Anybody?

David, love the pics of the kids.
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Piece

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« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2005, 07:35:12 am »

6 megapixels will get you an 11x14 roughly at about 250 DPI.  I would suggest Canon because they give you more of a lense selection and they seem to perform better at high ISOs (what about when they start sports?) but I'm just a newcomer so...

If you do go Nikon the 18-200vr is what everyone is raving about but I don't know that I would go with that.  You seem to be doing close up stuff and you'll never use the 200 range of it.  That and why not get a close up lense and a telephoto that will do the job better?  I have the 17-55mm f/2.8 lense and it's pretty good.  I would lookat the 28-70mm f/2.8 too, though, because I'm kind of regretting not having that one (there really is too little on the 55 end of the 17-55).  

As for Canon lenses the 85 f/1.2 is sweet for portraiture.  It is a bit slower focusing though, so you might miss a few shots of the kids.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2005, 07:41:51 am by Piece »
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HiltonP

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« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2005, 11:12:35 am »

Scuppy . . . First-off, the Sony F717 is a very capable camera, as a trip to http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sony/dsc_f717 will testify. If you're burning through 700-1500 photos a month with it, and only getting minimum results then possibly some improvement in technique, rather than equipment, is called for.

I can't help feel that stepping from your F717 to a 5D would be like trading in a VW Rabbit for a Ferrari because you wish to learn to drive better. On the other hand, if you've got the necessary $$$'s for a 5D, and a good lens to go with it, and probably a new computer to handle the 3x larger file sizes, and a copy of PhotoShop to get the best from the RAW files, then what the heck!  Go for it.

Personally I believe a Canon 350D + 17-85mm lens, or Nikon D50 + 18-200VR lens, or Olympus E-500 + 14-45 f2.8 lens would all be better options . . and you'd have money over for printers, computer upgrades, software, and even some photography lessons.
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Regards, HILTON

bob mccarthy

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« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2005, 11:31:44 am »

Quote
Thanks for all the advise.  The best advise has been to talk me out of the printer I thought I wanted.  I am so amazed by my granddaughter that I thought bigger would be better   but I can see where I was wrong.  I have looked online for the HP DJ30...?  I can't find it retail.  Any suggestions?

I believe the Nikon D200 might be the camera for me.  I like the price much better than the Canon and I believe it would be all the camera I would need.  It seems the most recommended lens is the 18-200vr due out late this month? 

I haven't heard any suggestions about classes to take in the North Atlanta area? Anybody?

David, love the pics of the kids.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

For the printer, I'd start with the HP web site. They should have a list of dealers in your area. The shop where I bought did not stock my 90. They took the order and it was delivered the day after, direct from HP. I was in shock, how they got it so fast to me.

[a href=\"http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF25a/18972-236251-236266-12600-236266-352379.html]http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF...266-352379.html[/url]

The HP30 is part of the pro lineup and are not in your local Fry's or equivalent. I found mine at a dealer who specializes in wide frame printers/paper/ink for the advertising industry. It's available direct from HP, often with deals and from many of the NYC mail order houses. Atlanta is a big city. There are dealers local for you.

Lesson/classes are often organized by a local Junior college, or camera club. The Jr college way is a very good way to get the basics down and have a lot of fun at the same time. I wanted to teach my wife photography. Well we all know that husbands can't teach wifes w/o much turmoil. I suggested she go to the local college which had night classes. She advanced very quickly and got a chance to spend time in a chemical darkroom. They're gone, (darkroom) but still an artform.

For the camera, pick a pro type dealer, stay away from the mass stores (ritz, wolf,etc). Their salesman are BS artists and are rarely well trained in photography. There are exceptions, of course, but its all about making the sale. They will beat you up on insurance or extended warrenties. With the depreciation rates of electronics, its a huge rip off. The make far more money selling "warrenties" than they make off of the camera sale. A pro dealer rarely even brings it up.

The D200 is a fine camera and has one significant advantage over it's cheaper brothers and that is a superior finder to all other DX/APS-C cameras.

Wide FL (zoom) range lenses are by necessity compromises, though not as much as they used to be. I'd personally recommend two lenses.

On the inexpensive side but good quality I suggest the 18-70 ED matched up with the 70-300 ED. You can get both for $500 and they both are excellent image gathers especially the 18-70. I Often carry it on my D2x in leiu of an "uber lens". Very light and very sharp. The 70-300ED is good small, and lightweight. Good walkabout lens.

The other option is buying the best of the best. That would be a 17-55 Dx and the 70-200VR. Both rival any comparable lens made and are fast (F2.8) compared to the lesser brothers. Downside is they are heavy, sizeable and expensive. Roughly $3000 for the pair.

I know too many choices.

I'd suggest starting with the 18-70ED and then adding as you see the need. If you have surplus cash the 17-55 makes a nice christmas present   to go with your new equipment.

Good shooting

Bob
« Last Edit: December 16, 2005, 11:43:17 am by bob mccarthy »
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Jazsax95

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« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2005, 01:40:18 pm »

Hi there,

I have been following the Nikon D200 release (too) closely as it is just beginning to make its way into the hands of those who preordered one on November 1 (when it was announced).  That includes me, though I am waiting patiently.  I agree that either of these cameras will produce spectacular images, and what matters more at this point is how each one feels in your hands.  Both are pro-caliber machines.  

My 2 cents here is that if you want the D200 it might be very difficult to acquire.  Most stores offered pre-orders and basically pre sold all the bodies they would get in the first shipment.  It might be a while until more are available.  Even preordering one will not guarantee anyone's possession by Tuesday.  If time is so important, and obviously in your case it is, rushing a decision will generate more insecurity in the long run, in my opinion.  If I were you I'd probably rent a body, and it doesn't necessarily have to be the pro models.  You could rent a D50 or a Rebel or 20D and see which control layout is more intuitive to you (actually I'd go with a D70 or 20D because they are more like the D200 and 5D than the others).  That will help your decision regarding which company you want to invest in.  And it gets you something to shoot with for this hugely important occasion.  

Hope that helps!  Good luck on your decision, and congratulations!

Sam
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glogan

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« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2005, 03:16:45 pm »

Quote
...

If you really do need a good step-up camera, the Nikon D50 would be fine, unless...

The printer you are getting could outrun the resolution of the D50 at the sizes you mention in your post. If you shoot your D50, the crop a photo and print it 24 inches wide, you're going to be disappointed, because the pictures are going to be blurry.

...[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=53241\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have been admiring the Nikons, particularly the D50 per the price and my existing equipment.  I already have a film Nikon N55 with a couple lenses. But I am concerned about the ISO 200 rating on the D50 (and other Nikons).

I'm definitely not a professional, but do regularly use (play with) 64 speed film and periodically suprise myself with some very nice results. I don't want to lose that capability when I make the jump into the digital world.

Should I avoid the Nikon (D50/D70)?  Or is the digital world different enough that I'm comparing apples & oranges with ISO ratings and sensitivies.

Best Regards,
Gary
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Jonathan Wienke

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« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2005, 09:46:01 pm »

Quote
Should I avoid the Nikon (D50/D70)?  Or is the digital world different enough that I'm comparing apples & oranges with ISO ratings and sensitivies.
With digital, a low ISO is not nearly as important to image quality as it is with film. Many DSLRs offer less image grain/noise at ISO 800 than 35mm film at ISO 100. If you absolutely have to have an unusually long shutter speed for some reason, use the camera's lowest ISO setting and and ND filter. I'd certainly not avoid digital on account of ISO range.
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dwdallam

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« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2005, 03:15:21 am »

I agree that teh Sony 717 is not your liomiting factor. It's a very capable camera. I think the 717 has a hot shoe, so get yourself a flash.

If you don't want to learn another camera, try the new Sony R1. It's similar to the 717, but has a C class sensor, 120mm leans, like your 717, fairly noise free, and it is 10.3 MP too. It's probably more camera than you will ever need for family pictures. I recently sold a Sony F828, and it took REALLY good pictures with a flash or studio lighting:

Sony R1 REVIEW:
http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sony-r1.shtml
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scuppy007

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« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2005, 03:50:45 pm »

I would like to thank everybody for all the good advise I received!  For now, since I couldn't get my hands on a D200 by the time the baby is born I have purchased a D50 from Costco.  I was told by the salesperson if I held the receipt I could use it and return it if I didn't like the performance.  I would like to upgrade after Christmas to maybe the D200 or at least a couple more lenses and a flash.  It came with a 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ed af-sDx zoom lens.  

I also bought the "NikonD50 Digital Field Guide" book and also "The Book Of Photography" by John Hedgecoe.  I want the one you recommended Lisa, but my bookstore didn't have one and I was crunched for time.  This one seems good and I have learned a lot already.  After Christmas I intend to find a good course on photography and learn the basics to using my dslr.  In looking through the parts on how to "see" better pictures I have discovered that I knew a lot of that already due to my interest in painting and art so if I can learn some good basick photography skills I should do fairly well for family photography.

I still haven't decided on a printer but would like to look into the deskjet 30.  I can do that after Christmas as well.  

Thanks again for the help!
Leisa
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