Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11]   Go Down

Author Topic: Glencoe, Scotland  (Read 16611 times)

Hans Kruse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1659
    • Hans Kruse Photography
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #200 on: November 05, 2014, 10:42:24 AM »

You missed an important word in what I wrote: "And I'll remind you he also originally SAID that he was using Firefox in Mode 1, not mode 2.".
In other words, you and I are saying the same thing in different ways.

And by the way, I didn't mention that to crap on John.  I just mentioned it as an illustration that it is easy to make errors when researching these things (we all do on occasion) and when we do, it can take us down a long, painful path of incorrect conclusions.

Also Hans, if you don't have anything better to do :) and happen to be on your wide-gamut display, could you take a screen shot of Slobodan's two "orange" images with Firefox in mode 2 and post it (with your monitor profile embedded :)   )?

Well, what can I say. I think what you said was confusing and not that clear. Anyway, if you agree with me that what John posted was a screeen shot of Firefox in mode 2 and not 1 then we agree.

I'm now home and did a screen shot Slobodans example using Safari and Firefox in mode 1 and mode 2 on my Dell U3014 wide gamut monitor attached to my MacBook Pro. And since the screen shots were done on the Mac the monitor profile is embedded.

As you can see the Safari and Firefox mode 1 shots are identical (to my eyes at least) so my memory was correct as what I posted while I was on my trip.

Hans Kruse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1659
    • Hans Kruse Photography
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #201 on: November 05, 2014, 10:44:56 AM »

Hans has been trying to persuade me to buy a wide gamut display, but in the light of this thread, I think I'll stick to an SRGB one !

Jeremy,

See my last post including screen shots from my Dell wide gamut monitor. I don't see there should be a problem for you to get a wide gamut monitor other than the financial one  ;D and especially since you are using the same MBP as me.

The only problem is people who post wildly edited pictures  ;D

Eyeball

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 150
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #202 on: November 05, 2014, 11:14:01 AM »

Well, what can I say. I think what you said was confusing and not that clear. Anyway, if you agree with me that what John posted was a screeen shot of Firefox in mode 2 and not 1 then we agree.

I'm now home and did a screen shot Slobodans example using Safari and Firefox in mode 1 and mode 2 on my Dell U3014 wide gamut monitor attached to my MacBook Pro. And since the screen shots were done on the Mac the monitor profile is embedded.

As you can see the Safari and Firefox mode 1 shots are identical (to my eyes at least) so my memory was correct as what I posted while I was on my trip.

Thanks for taking the time to do that, Hans.
What you posted is what I was expecting to see and is not far off from the simulation that I did earlier.

My conclusions from everything that has been presented are as follows:
  • John either has a wide-gamut monitor or his monitor profile is making significant adjustments (like maybe using the profile to correct for monitor white point and/or gamma instead of making those adjustments on the monitor during calibration).  This is based on his screen-grab evidence, which shows a major difference between the color-managed sRGB image and the non-color-managed image.
  • Kevin's image is likely in sRGB and as he intended.  If he had inadvertently exported the image in ProPhoto or AdobeRGB, his untagged image would look LESS saturated for people using normal-gamut monitors (and/or browsers that assume sRGB for untagged images), not MORE.
  • John very likely did see Kevin's image MORE saturated than what Kevin intended (and what most of the rest of us are seeing).  This is because of the characteristics of his monitor/monitor profile as I mentioned in the first bullet and the likelihood that he was using a browser that views untagged images in the monitor color space (Firefox mode 2, for example).

Logged

Hans Kruse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1659
    • Hans Kruse Photography
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #203 on: November 05, 2014, 11:19:14 AM »

Thanks for taking the time to do that, Hans.
What you posted is what I was expecting to see and is not far off from the simulation that I did earlier.

My conclusions from everything that has been presented are as follows:
  • John either has a wide-gamut monitor or his monitor profile is making significant adjustments (like maybe using the profile to correct for monitor white point and/or gamma instead of making those adjustments on the monitor during calibration).  This is based on his screen-grab evidence, which shows a major difference between the color-managed sRGB image and the non-color-managed image.
  • Kevin's image is likely in sRGB and as he intended.  If he had inadvertently exported the image in ProPhoto or AdobeRGB, his untagged image would look LESS saturated for people using normal-gamut monitors (and/or browsers that assume sRGB for untagged images), not MORE.
  • John very likely did see Kevin's image MORE saturated than what Kevin intended (and what most of the rest of us are seeing).  This is because of the characteristics of his monitor/monitor profile as I mentioned in the first bullet and the likelihood that he was using a browser that views untagged images in the monitor color space (Firefox mode 2, for example).



From my side it is cleared up and what John might have done I really don't want to spend time on unless he cooperates in this thread. Otherwise it is waste of time. I don't have a Windows PC that I can hook up to my Dell monitor so unless someone else will do the same as I did under Windows and using both Safari and Firefox in mode 1 and 2, I'll let the case rest here.

What Kevin has done he should come back on as he indicated.

Eyeball

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 150
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #204 on: November 05, 2014, 11:47:55 AM »

From my side it is cleared up and what John might have done I really don't want to spend time on unless he cooperates in this thread. Otherwise it is waste of time. I don't have a Windows PC that I can hook up to my Dell monitor so unless someone else will do the same as I did under Windows and using both Safari and Firefox in mode 1 and 2, I'll let the case rest here.

What Kevin has done he should come back on as he indicated.


I was just attempting to "close the circle" and show how all the pieces fit together.
And as I said to Slobodan, I don't consider it just wild-assed speculation.  It's looking at the evidence provided in the thread and relating that to the way color management in browsers works.
Since different people were seeing different things, I thought it worthwhile to offer an explanation of why.
Since the thread has went on for 10 pages, I also thought a little informative closure would be nice.
I'm certainly open to correction, including verification from Kevin if he has the time and desire to provide it.
Logged

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 605
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #205 on: November 05, 2014, 11:48:52 AM »

From my side it is cleared up [...]
Yes, practice is demonstrated to correspond to theory, which is always a relief.

What is also demonstrated is that posting an image without the profile just leads to trouble, for no benefit except a trivial saving in file size.

What remains to be shown is how foliage turns back from yellow to green in the space of a couple of weeks, but let the jury wait in patience for that.

(As for the monitors, as you know - or can guess - my interest is in the Apple thunderbolt display :-)  )
Logged

Hans Kruse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1659
    • Hans Kruse Photography
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #206 on: November 05, 2014, 11:49:06 AM »

I was at the same location as Kevin yesterday afternoon on my way back from Isle of Skye and there is my take which also can be seen here https://www.flickr.com/photos/hkruse/15532144069/in/photostream/

Hans Kruse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1659
    • Hans Kruse Photography
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #207 on: November 05, 2014, 11:52:06 AM »

I was just attempting to "close the circle" and show how all the pieces fit together.
And as I said to Slobodan, I don't consider it just wild-assed speculation.  It's looking at the evidence provided in the thread and relating that to the way color management in browsers works.
Since different people were seeing different things, I thought it worthwhile to offer an explanation of why.
Since the thread has went on for 10 pages, I also thought a little informative closure would be nice.
I'm certainly open to correction, including verification from Kevin if he has the time and desire to provide it.

Too many speculations that I find it worth while discussing further.

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 605
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #208 on: November 05, 2014, 11:57:27 AM »

I was at the same location as Kevin yesterday afternoon on my way back from Isle of Skye and there is my take which also can be seen here https://www.flickr.com/photos/hkruse/15532144069/in/photostream/

As I said elsewhere, that is a lovely picture - you can almost taste the Talisker. Well, I will as soon as I open this bottle ... hic!
Logged

Hans Kruse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1659
    • Hans Kruse Photography
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #209 on: November 05, 2014, 11:59:19 AM »

Yes, practice is demonstrated to correspond to theory, which is always a relief.

What is also demonstrated is that posting an image without the profile just leads to trouble, for no benefit except a trivial saving in file size.

What remains to be shown is how foliage turns back from yellow to green in the space of a couple of weeks, but let the jury wait in patience for that.

(As for the monitors, as you know - or can guess - my interest is in the Apple thunderbolt display :-)  )

My wife has one and I have looked at it and calibrated before I bought the new Dell U3014. The Apple display has the glass plate that gives too many reflections and I like the bigger 30" display. The Dell display is very nice and nicer than the Apple 27" in my opinion and it is not more expensive. But what I suggested you to look at was 4K displays.... and you can get them in rather different prices where the Dell 24" is very nicely priced and quite a bit lower than the 27" Apple. See a review here http://diglloyd.com/articles/Recommended/DellUP2414Q.html

Hans Kruse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1659
    • Hans Kruse Photography
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #210 on: November 05, 2014, 12:00:45 PM »

As I said elsewhere, that is a lovely picture - you can almost taste the Talisker. Well, I will as soon as I open this bottle ... hic!

Thanks, I had a couple Talisker last evening to celebrate the week in Scotland. Certainly to be repeated. It was wonderful despite all the rain.

AreBee

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 638
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #211 on: October 28, 2015, 10:06:16 AM »

Kevin,

Quote
When I get back from the damp and wet Scotland trip I am presently on I will pull the original raw and do a small article on it.

Quote
I will revisit this and ask Joe and Steve to contribute to the article with me...I will ask each of them to process the same file in their way.

Quote
...wait and let a few of us show you what we do with this particular image.

Was a follow-up article ever published?
Logged

Chairman Bill

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2788
    • flickr page
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #212 on: October 28, 2015, 10:19:24 AM »

Thanks, I had a couple Talisker last evening to celebrate the week in Scotland. Certainly to be repeated. It was wonderful despite all the rain.

Talisker makes the rain all the more bearable, so long as you don't get too much rain in the glass

stamper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5124
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #213 on: October 28, 2015, 10:53:52 AM »

I had a Talisker Storm last night. Very nice. My first malt of the evening was a Smokehead. Now that is a smoky malt! :)

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 605
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #214 on: October 28, 2015, 02:15:35 PM »

Kevin,

Was a follow-up article ever published?

Not that I saw.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11]   Go Up