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Author Topic: Gender  (Read 8216 times)

RSL

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Re: Gender
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2014, 06:07:18 pm »

"Gender" has nothing whatever to do with the biological basis of sex in mammals, Damon. It has only to do with grammar in inflected languages. If WHO wants a word to distinguish between sex and sexual roles, let it come up with a new one instead of debasing a perfectly good and useful word.
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shawnino

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Re: Gender
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2014, 06:50:43 pm »

I'm at the point where I've just tuned out a lot of this feminism/sex/gender stuff. I think it's probably best to just let other people squabble over it and the rest of us can get on with hyperventilating about Ebola or dealing with more urgent matters.

My feminist friend had a birthday last week and I had no idea what I should get her as a present, so I got her what would make her happy.
Nothing.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Gender
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2014, 07:20:41 pm »

... Nowadays we take it for granted that sex and gender are as different as biology and culture...

Finally, most of the people who did this primary research were neither women nor feminists...

Some might take it for granted, some do not.

The attempt to divorce culture from biology is quintessentially feminist, quite visible in the internal split in the so-called "third-wave feminism [that] also contains internal debates between difference feminists, who believe that there are important differences between the sexes, and those who believe that there are no inherent differences between the sexes and contend that gender roles are due to social conditioning. (Wikipedia)

mezzoduomo

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Re: Gender
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2014, 08:39:27 pm »

Really?
21 replies constituting a semantics debate in response to a photograph with an amusing title? I don't get it...
???
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Gender
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2014, 08:55:56 pm »

It is an amusing title, you said it 😊

Chrisso26

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Re: Gender
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2014, 09:10:03 pm »

Women are routinely paid less for doing the same work. Women are routinely under represented in most democratic country's parliaments. Women are almost non-existent on web forums. LULA being somewhat better than most. But almost all the other forums I visit have zero female participation. This is regarding music, camera, video forums. A couple of the music forums are more like macho locker rooms, and I only reluctantly go there to keep abreast of the latest news and technology.
These are all things I would LOVE to see change. And I'm a middle aged, white bloke.
Women are in equal number of our society. Women are just as skilled, knowledgeable and interesting as men. Women have a perspective and view I would like to hear.
Why is it they are absent or often not taking equal part?
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Gender
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2014, 09:26:43 pm »

Seriously!?

Damon Lynch

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Re: Gender
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2014, 05:20:23 am »

"Gender" has nothing whatever to do with the biological basis of sex in mammals, Damon. It has only to do with grammar in inflected languages. If WHO wants a word to distinguish between sex and sexual roles, let it come up with a new one instead of debasing a perfectly good and useful word.

Russ, gender is not the same as biological sex, correct. You are welcome to make your argument that gender is purely about language if you like. You may even be able to rustle up an obscure scholar or two who agrees with you. But meanwhile practically the entire scientific and social scientific community has a different conception than the one you believe in. It's not very complicated. Sex refers to biological aspects, and gender to cultural aspects. That's all.
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Jim Pascoe

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Re: Gender
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2014, 11:35:32 am »

Women are routinely paid less for doing the same work. Women are routinely under represented in most democratic country's parliaments. Women are almost non-existent on web forums. LULA being somewhat better than most. But almost all the other forums I visit have zero female participation. This is regarding music, camera, video forums. A couple of the music forums are more like macho locker rooms, and I only reluctantly go there to keep abreast of the latest news and technology.
These are all things I would LOVE to see change. And I'm a middle aged, white bloke.
Women are in equal number of our society. Women are just as skilled, knowledgeable and interesting as men. Women have a perspective and view I would like to hear.
Why is it they are absent or often not taking equal part?

I'm a middle aged white bloke too and I would say there are two reasons not many women have time for these forums. Firstly - they probably have better things to do like looking after the kids or cleaning the house (that is true but also said with a smile). Or even out taking photographs.
Secondly there are a lot of bullies on forums such as this - especially when women move into male dominated subjects like technology and don't just stick to talking about pictures.  Most of the recipients of bulling of course are other men.

And as a middle aged guy I have grown up understanding gender in the use Damon has suggested - it's too late Russ for the WHO or anyone else to come up with a new word, the word is 'gender' for most of us - we can understand the distinction between gender when applied to language and when applied to cultural differences.  The original picture and title made perfect sense to me.

Jim 
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Gender
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2014, 11:45:56 am »


And as a middle aged guy I have grown up understanding gender in the use Damon has suggested - it's too late Russ for the WHO or anyone else to come up with a new word, the word is 'gender' for most of us - we can understand the distinction between gender when applied to language and when applied to cultural differences.  The original picture and title made perfect sense to me.


Bingo. Context-sensitive connotation, it has always been this way.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Gender
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2014, 12:27:22 pm »

... almost all the other forums I visit have zero female participation. This is regarding music, camera, video forums...

May I then suggest you migrate over to scrapbook, crochet, quilting, etc. forums to rectify this outrageous injustice?  ;)

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Gender
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2014, 12:40:47 pm »

Women are almost non-existent on web forums.

Ideally, web forums are about exchanging information, and often are. Many threads here on LULA are exactly that. But the free-form general topic threads often degenerate into guys scoring points. This is probably a remnant of the savannah herding genes where the bucks butt heads so they can score with all the females in the herd. It's primeval and basically emotional. I've been hanging around guys my whole life and when they get together in a group, dominance games usually emerge because they think it will help them get laid. By and large women find this boring, I believe.

Watch. Someone is going to take the above nonsense about herding genes seriously. It was tongue-in-cheek, guys, calm yourselves. :)
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RSL

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Re: Gender
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2014, 01:15:06 pm »

I have absolutely no objection to new words joining the language. English has been accepting new words since beyond recorded history. But I DO have an objection to useful words and terms being corrupted through ignorance. I'll agree that there's no turning back on "gender." Ignorance has corrupted it beyond reprieve. It's like the term "begs the question," which nobody nowadays seems to understand in its original meaning.
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Manoli

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Re: Gender
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2014, 02:04:00 pm »

I'm a middle aged white bloke too and I would say there are two reasons not many women have time for these forums.  [...] Secondly there are a lot of bullies on forums such as this - especially when women move into male dominated subjects like technology and don't just stick to talking about pictures.  Most of the recipients of bulling of course are other men.

[/small diversion]

So true ... back in earlier days (as a lurker) on dpreview I remember there was indeed one woman who consistently received that sort of treatment from other (male) overbearing and needlessly condescending forum members. Time and time again it happened, they would slowly try to 'educate' her, each time she'd come back with yet another question until each time it finally left them truly punctured.

Of course, she chose which threads to join with appropriate guile, but it was fun to watch ...
Anyone here heard of Julia ?

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Gender
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2014, 03:18:25 pm »

... guys scoring points. This is probably a remnant of the savannah herding genes where the bucks butt heads so they can score with all the females in the herd. It's primeval and basically emotional... dominance games usually emerge because they think it will help them get laid. By and large women find this boring, I believe.

Watch. Someone is going to take the above nonsense about herding genes seriously. It was tongue-in-cheek, guys, calm yourselves. :)

Ok, let me be that someone ;)

You believe women find it boring because...? Because you succumbed to societal/cultural pressure to be politically correct? Well, you might "believe" so, but the science, so dear to our friend Damon's heart, says otherwise:

Guys WILL get laid if they act more masculine. The caveat is that the research at UCLA refers to ovulation period. Turns out, decades of feminist and leftist cultural brainwashing stands no chance when it comes to biology. ;)

P.S. Did I just score a point? ;D

RSL

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Re: Gender
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2014, 04:07:17 pm »

Bingo!
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Harald L

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Re: Gender
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2014, 04:50:22 pm »

Time to leaven the atmosphere. Bessa presents the new postmen uniform.

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RSL

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Re: Gender
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2014, 05:50:16 pm »

Now THERE'S gender or sex, whatever you want to call it.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Gender
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2014, 06:04:33 pm »

... Bessa presents the new postmen uniform.

I wish my postman would look like that (ahm, postwoman?).

Funny, I initially read your "postmen" to mean "post-men," as in "apocalyptic world in which feminists got rid of men" You scared me, bro! ;D

Chrisso26

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Re: Gender
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2014, 10:16:49 pm »

Funny how no one ever posts 'sexy' pictures of men in these threads.
That would be a refreshing change at least. But why break with tradition.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 10:33:07 pm by Chrisso26 »
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