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Author Topic: Gender  (Read 8215 times)

Harald L

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Gender
« on: October 20, 2014, 12:02:11 pm »

Endless attempts to archive equality show first results ;D

Harald
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RSL

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Re: Gender
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2014, 01:15:49 pm »

Neat shot, Harlem. But you mean "sex," not "gender." Gender applies to language. Sex applies to people -- happily in many varied ways. In recent years the left has made a brave attempt to confuse the two words, and for now they're succeeding. But in the long run the words need to be distinct, so eventually either the confusion will go away or we'll have to come up with a new word to replace "gender."
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Harald L

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Re: Gender
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2014, 01:29:11 pm »

Neat shot, Harlem. But you mean "sex," not "gender." Gender applies to language. Sex applies to people -- happily in many varied ways. In recent years the left has made a brave attempt to confuse the two words, and for now they're succeeding. But in the long run the words need to be distinct, so eventually either the confusion will go away or we'll have to come up with a new word to replace "gender."

Thank you for clarifying, Russ. Indeed, in Germany we have a lot of confusion using the word "gender" but this doesn't matter because the confusion we cause by this discussion at all is not limited to this word.

Harald
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Gender
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2014, 01:36:46 pm »

Endless attempts to archive equality show first results ;D

Harald

I wish we could indeed aRchive [sic] the question of gender "equality", as we are not equal nor should we ever be. ;)

Harald L

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Re: Gender
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2014, 02:32:23 pm »

I wish we could indeed aRchive [sic] the question of gender "equality", as we are not equal nor should we ever be. ;)

Another example of how the auto-correction of Safari will lead us to a better world.

Harald
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deejjjaaaa

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Re: Gender
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2014, 02:54:53 pm »

Neat shot, Harlem. But you mean "sex," not "gender."

in the age of total corporate/state control you might want to use the word "gender" in your browser... big brother is watching what you are typing/looking @
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Damon Lynch

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Re: Gender
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2014, 05:01:43 am »

Neat shot, Harlem. But you mean "sex," not "gender." Gender applies to language. Sex applies to people -- happily in many varied ways. In recent years the left has made a brave attempt to confuse the two words, and for now they're succeeding. But in the long run the words need to be distinct, so eventually either the confusion will go away or we'll have to come up with a new word to replace "gender."

The distinction between gender and sex has absolutely nothing to do with being left-wing or right-wing. From the World Health Organization:

"Sex" refers to the biological and physiological characteristics that define men and women.

"Gender" refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women.

To put it another way:

"Male" and "female" are sex categories, while "masculine" and "feminine" are gender categories.
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Justinr

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Re: Gender
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2014, 07:28:11 am »

I wish we could indeed aRchive [sic] the question of gender "equality", as we are not equal nor should we ever be. ;)

Quite, as my management committee of an assortment of wives, daughters and cats never fail to remind me.
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deejjjaaaa

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Re: Gender
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2014, 10:19:03 am »

The distinction between gender and sex has absolutely nothing to do with being left-wing or right-wing. From the World Health Organization:


in RSL's mind (I bet) the mere reference to "World"-anything to substantiate your opinion qualifies you as a left-winger...
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Gender
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2014, 11:34:42 am »

The real reason "sex" is replaced with "gender" is much simpler. On too many forms and questionnaires that contained that question ("sex") the answer given, instead of "M" or "F," was: YES! ;)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Gender
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2014, 11:39:03 am »

The distinction between gender and sex has absolutely nothing to do with being left-wing or right-wing. From the World Health Organization:...

And that is a proof because...?

Gender, in the sense WHO is using it, is a mid-20th century invention. Guess by whom?

RSL

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Re: Gender
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2014, 11:46:34 am »

Slobodan's right on the money. Until left-wing WHO got into the act the standard definition of "gender" was

"A grammatical category in inflected languages governing the agreement between nouns and pronouns and adjectives; in some languages it is quite arbitrary but in Indo-European languages it is usually based on sex or animateness."
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PhotoEcosse

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Re: Gender
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2014, 11:48:01 am »

The real reason "sex" is replaced with "gender" is much simpler. On too many forms and questionnaires that contained that question ("sex") the answer given, instead of "M" or "F," was: YES! ;)

I really lament the lack of good manners in the modern world.

Have those questionnaire respondents never heard of the word "please"?
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Gender
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2014, 12:09:54 pm »

Relax everybody, the meanings of words change all the time, they always have. It's not a left-wing (or any other wing) conspiracy.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Gender
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2014, 12:29:41 pm »

Relax everybody, the meanings of words change all the time, they always have. It's not a left-wing (or any other wing) conspiracy.

Sure they change, but we are discussing here why, how, and by whom. Not a conspiracy (as it implies something clandestine), but a result of a deliberate, concerted, public effort by numerous groups that can be loosely combined into "left-wing" (PC nuts, feminists, progressives, liberals, loony left, etc.)

Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Gender
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2014, 02:12:07 pm »

Speaking of gender (or is it sex?), I've always been amused by the German language's treatment of those common table accessories: knife, fork, and spoon.

Das Messer (neuter), die Gabel (feminine), der Löffel (masculine).

Sexy, huh?
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Gender
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2014, 02:22:01 pm »

... spoon.

... der Löffel (masculine).

Sexy, huh?

And so gay ;)

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Gender
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2014, 02:56:14 pm »

Anderseits, denke ich an Schraubenvater und Schraubenmutter…

http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Schraubenmutter

Beste grüsse
Erich (AKA ErikKaffehr)

Speaking of gender (or is it sex?), I've always been amused by the German language's treatment of those common table accessories: knife, fork, and spoon.

Das Messer (neuter), die Gabel (feminine), der Löffel (masculine).

Sexy, huh?

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Erik Kaffehr
 

Harald L

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Re: Gender
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2014, 04:43:15 pm »

Speaking of gender (or is it sex?), I've always been amused by the German language's treatment of those common table accessories: knife, fork, and spoon.

Das Messer (neuter), die Gabel (feminine), der Löffel (masculine).

Sexy, huh?


When I was a young electrician most German craftsmen were amused by the english words for Stecker and Buchse: male and female. Does things have sex?!?

Harald

PS: Of course Der Stecker, Die Buchse, Germans are not idiots at all.
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Damon Lynch

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Re: Gender
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2014, 05:57:10 pm »

Sure they change, but we are discussing here why, how, and by whom. Not a conspiracy (as it implies something clandestine), but a result of a deliberate, concerted, public effort by numerous groups that can be loosely combined into "left-wing" (PC nuts, feminists, progressives, liberals, loony left, etc.)

This is ridiculous. Where did you get this idea from - Glenn Beck?

Thanks to advances in science, we now have a much better idea about the biological basis of sex in mammals, including human beings, than we did a century ago. To take one example at random: we now know that some female athletes have physical attributes we normally associate with being male that give them a performance advantage on the track. That's to do with sex. That's biological. We also have a better idea of cultural diversity and what it entails than a century ago too. When a male does penile subincision, he's doing because his culture tells him it's a good thing to do. His sex is male but the way he understands how to be a proper man (his gender role) is different from you and me.

In short, in working through things like this, last century researchers found it helpful to distinguish sex from gender. Nowadays we take it for granted that sex and gender are as different as biology and culture, simply because it makes so much sense.

Finally, most of the people who did this primary research were neither women nor feminists, because as we all know, women in almost all countries had their access to practicing science curtailed until not that many generations ago.
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