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Author Topic: Request for advice getting started in digital medium format  (Read 28085 times)

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Request for advice getting started in digital medium format
« Reply #120 on: October 20, 2014, 05:22:20 pm »

Yes Master Yoda,

May be I just feel out of Phase, some times.

Best regards
Erik

Erik,

 You are starting to sound like the dark Phase strong with you is :)

Edmund
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Wolven

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Re: Request for advice getting started in digital medium format
« Reply #121 on: October 21, 2014, 05:14:31 am »

Alright gents,

I'm about to pull the trigger on a very economical P25 purchase tomorrow morning.

It is quite affordable that I'm hoping to get a Mamiya AFDII body with lenses into the deal.

I'll be doing some basic checks and looking at the RAW file for imperfections etc.

Is there anything specific I should look for? Is there a checklist that I could use?

Thanks and regards!!
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synn

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Re: Request for advice getting started in digital medium format
« Reply #122 on: October 21, 2014, 05:16:51 am »

AFD II is not supported by the new leaf shutter lenses or the latest backs. But I doubt that matters for your intended use case.
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Wolven

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Re: Request for advice getting started in digital medium format
« Reply #123 on: October 21, 2014, 05:48:22 am »

AFD II is not supported by the new leaf shutter lenses or the latest backs. But I doubt that matters for your intended use case.

Thanks for the info, Synn. You are right, I intend to get a technical camera eventually so this will tide me over until then.

Cheers
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torger

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Re: Request for advice getting started in digital medium format
« Reply #124 on: October 21, 2014, 06:29:09 am »

Alright gents,

I'm about to pull the trigger on a very economical P25 purchase tomorrow morning.

It is quite affordable that I'm hoping to get a Mamiya AFDII body with lenses into the deal.

I'll be doing some basic checks and looking at the RAW file for imperfections etc.

Is there anything specific I should look for? Is there a checklist that I could use?

Thanks and regards!!

You can post a raw file to me and I'll have a look. If there's dead columns and stuff it can be calibrated out so you won't see it unless you disable the calibration data application which you can't do in most raw software. Maybe you can do it in RawDigger, not sure. I just modify the source code and recompile my own tools or RawTherapee when I do the check :-).

In addition you should look for scratches on the glass, shooting an LCC shot at small aperture is easiest for spotting but usually you should be able to see it just by looking close on the glass filter and see if there is any scratches.

See if the clock date is still working.

Check firmware version, hopefully it's the latest. It should be possible to upgrade otherwise, but I know there were a few of the older Phase One backs that would fail on firmware upgrade and needed to be sent in.

Otherwise if the back has been used before quite recently by the previous owner (and not just sitting on the shelf as a backup) and it has worked well and you trust that info you should be fine. While buying virtually unused gear (backup units) can be attractive for this old gear I think it feel safer if it has been used and proved working.

Also don't get dependent on the gear too early and prepare for a worst case that it will fail some time from now and you need to repair it (I don't know the exact status but I think most repairs should still be possible). It's an unlikely case, but it's just like making a private deal with a car or something, you need to accept some risk.

I don't know anything about the Mamiya body.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 06:34:34 am by torger »
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Chris Livsey

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Re: Request for advice getting started in digital medium format
« Reply #125 on: October 21, 2014, 10:35:34 am »


See if the clock date is still working.


How?

My P20 if left without a battery "forgets" the time and needs a reset. If I change batteries I don't loose the time. I have not taken the trouble to quantify how long it takes to loose the time. Is this know , hence my how?

Is it wise if not using the back for say a week to leave the battery in or remove it?
( I am aware of the advice is to remove it if sending it by post etc but is that for fire risk?)


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torger

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Re: Request for advice getting started in digital medium format
« Reply #126 on: October 21, 2014, 11:59:45 am »

How?

My P20 if left without a battery "forgets" the time and needs a reset. If I change batteries I don't loose the time. I have not taken the trouble to quantify how long it takes to loose the time. Is this know , hence my how?

Is it wise if not using the back for say a week to leave the battery in or remove it?
( I am aware of the advice is to remove it if sending it by post etc but is that for fire risk?)

A good question indeed. Unfortunately I don't think there is a good way... maybe Doug or some dealer knows but they probably won't tell us :-). I think it's a quite typical behavior that date is held as long as there is an external battery there, but if left without battery or empty battery for a while it will lose date. How long "a while" is is variable of course... if buying a back it may not be so practical to check as it may take several hours or a few days before it loses time. I guess one will be left with asking the seller and hope he/she knows and doesn't lie. If the date doesn't work that could be a reason to get a lower price to finance a service to get it fixed, or just ignore it. I would probably ignore it, but try to get a few hundred bucks off the price.
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Paul2660

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Re: Request for advice getting started in digital medium format
« Reply #127 on: October 21, 2014, 12:38:21 pm »

Older backs like the P20 or P45 had an internal battery which did not recharge. This battery failed after about 1.5 years and had to replaced by Phase. My P45 went back 2 times for it. If you leave a regular battery in the back it will keep the time current but once you replace main battery and leave it out a few minutes the time is lost.

I don't know what the IQ backs have but I assume it's a better design as I have not read many reports on IQ backs losing time.

Paul
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Justinr

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Re: Request for advice getting started in digital medium format
« Reply #128 on: October 21, 2014, 12:55:45 pm »








Slight diversion if I may.

I've never been a fan of digital black and white but that rock pool picture has almost swayed me. It's a lovely shot and well finished. Well done!

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Chris Livsey

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Re: Request for advice getting started in digital medium format
« Reply #129 on: October 21, 2014, 01:33:29 pm »

If you leave a regular battery in the back it will keep the time current but once you replace main battery and leave it out a few minutes the time is lost.

Well I'm testing  ;D
10 mins no issue
30 mins no issue
Just running one hour now, bear in mind this is consecutive testing so only replaced the battery to see if time is lost.

I know it goes over a few days. I certainly won't be paying for a replacement as long as I can switch batteries without an issue. I have had the back about five years so it isn't a recent failure.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Request for advice getting started in digital medium format
« Reply #130 on: October 21, 2014, 03:24:02 pm »

Older backs like the P20 or P45 had an internal battery which did not recharge. This battery failed after about 1.5 years and had to replaced by Phase. My P45 went back 2 times for it. If you leave a regular battery in the back it will keep the time current but once you replace main battery and leave it out a few minutes the time is lost.

I don't know what the IQ backs have but I assume it's a better design as I have not read many reports on IQ backs losing time.

Paul


My back no longer holds the time and I do not see an issue with it.  I know when the image was taken, so I really don't care too much about it. 

I assume this has no effect on the images or IQ at all, right? 
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Paul2660

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Re: Request for advice getting started in digital medium format
« Reply #131 on: October 21, 2014, 04:06:18 pm »

My back no longer holds the time and I do not see an issue with it.  I know when the image was taken, so I really don't care too much about it. 

I assume this has no effect on the images or IQ at all, right? 

It should have no effect on the images. Firmware is not effected just the date info.  I agree not a huge deal but I  always had the battery (internal) replaced when the back was serviced.

Paul

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Chris Livsey

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Re: Request for advice getting started in digital medium format
« Reply #132 on: October 21, 2014, 04:15:59 pm »

I think checking is going to be an issue, battery out for two hours, still in time. So over three and a half hours with only reinserting to check. I know time goes when left a few days.
It takes seconds to reset the time, which has no effect on the image and I assume the exif can be changed anyway.
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Wolven

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Re: Request for advice getting started in digital medium format
« Reply #133 on: October 22, 2014, 03:25:32 am »

I took some photographs today on the P25 back, Anders. I'll send them to you when I get home. File sharing is blocked at work.

Please have a look and advise if it looks OK.

The glass looks good and I haven't checked the f22 aperture RAW files yet.

The back itself has gone through about 50000 shots and there is a problem though. The Firewire port wasn't working on his Mac. He was using a thunderbolt adapter from the P25 to his new Mac. It is possible that the back's Firewire port controller is not working any more.

I checked the firmware and it is at 3.3.4 while the latest s/w seems to be 3.3.6.

It takes good photographs and the sharpness is brilliant!! Its a great deal for the price including the body, spare batteries, L-plate etc etc.

You can post a raw file to me and I'll have a look. If there's dead columns and stuff it can be calibrated out so you won't see it unless you disable the calibration data application which you can't do in most raw software. Maybe you can do it in RawDigger, not sure. I just modify the source code and recompile my own tools or RawTherapee when I do the check :-).

In addition you should look for scratches on the glass, shooting an LCC shot at small aperture is easiest for spotting but usually you should be able to see it just by looking close on the glass filter and see if there is any scratches.

See if the clock date is still working.

Check firmware version, hopefully it's the latest. It should be possible to upgrade otherwise, but I know there were a few of the older Phase One backs that would fail on firmware upgrade and needed to be sent in.

Otherwise if the back has been used before quite recently by the previous owner (and not just sitting on the shelf as a backup) and it has worked well and you trust that info you should be fine. While buying virtually unused gear (backup units) can be attractive for this old gear I think it feel safer if it has been used and proved working.

Also don't get dependent on the gear too early and prepare for a worst case that it will fail some time from now and you need to repair it (I don't know the exact status but I think most repairs should still be possible). It's an unlikely case, but it's just like making a private deal with a car or something, you need to accept some risk.

I don't know anything about the Mamiya body.
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Wolven

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Re: Request for advice getting started in digital medium format
« Reply #134 on: October 22, 2014, 03:28:31 am »

Slight diversion if I may.

I've never been a fan of digital black and white but that rock pool picture has almost swayed me. It's a lovely shot and well finished. Well done!



Many thanks for your kind words, Justin.

Its one of my personal favourites due to the varying textures across the board but didn't seem to be a "crowd pleaser" :)

Glad you like it! In my pursuit of medium format digital backs, I stumbled across the Achromatic back from PhaseOne and was blown away by some of the work out there. Worth a google search if you need more convincing.

Cheers.
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torger

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Re: Request for advice getting started in digital medium format
« Reply #135 on: October 22, 2014, 06:39:49 am »

If you don't intend to tether it doesn't need to be a problem. For professional studio work tethering is a key feature, but for landscape out in the field it's not. I have never used the tethering on my current back.

Some do use tethering in the field, but I don't really like the idea of porting a laptop. If I could tether my old school back to my mobile phone and make use of the great mobile phone screen for faster and better sharpness checking that would be different, but there is no such adapters or software to do such a thing.
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synn

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Re: Request for advice getting started in digital medium format
« Reply #136 on: October 22, 2014, 08:34:13 am »

Leaf Aptus backs used to tether to hp ipaqs, torger. Yaya probably can explain it further.
If you can find one on eBay, maybe it will prove useful in the field.
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Paul2660

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Re: Request for advice getting started in digital medium format
« Reply #137 on: October 22, 2014, 08:40:33 am »

Actually, being able to tether in the field has revolutionized my shooting style.  Again hats off to Ken Doo for all his time spent writing about the Surface and tethering.

I realize with the older backs that only offer firewire this means a more cumbersome and larger laptop.

I now carry the Surface on on my trips including stream trips, it's an excellent solution in the field.

Paul
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torger

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Re: Request for advice getting started in digital medium format
« Reply #138 on: October 22, 2014, 09:25:23 am »

Leaf Aptus backs used to tether to hp ipaqs, torger. Yaya probably can explain it further.
If you can find one on eBay, maybe it will prove useful in the field.

Yep I knew about that, but an ancient HP Ipaq is not going to get any speedy useful high dpi touch-screen experience :-). In fact if I remember correctly it's only possible to check histogram and thumbnail, not sure it was possible to focus check. A fine thing with the Aptus is that the screen on the back itself actually is good enough for focus check which makes an extra screen less interesting.
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Wolven

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Re: Request for advice getting started in digital medium format
« Reply #139 on: October 22, 2014, 09:46:10 am »

If you don't intend to tether it doesn't need to be a problem. For professional studio work tethering is a key feature, but for landscape out in the field it's not. I have never used the tethering on my current back.

Some do use tethering in the field, but I don't really like the idea of porting a laptop. If I could tether my old school back to my mobile phone and make use of the great mobile phone screen for faster and better sharpness checking that would be different, but there is no such adapters or software to do such a thing.

I did some Googling and came up with this knowledge base article from Phase One. http://www.phaseone.com/Search/Article.aspx?articleid=1256&languageid=1

Seems like there is an issue with using Thunderbolt adapters for Firewire connection to the PhaseOne back. The simple fix is to switch the back to use its own battery instead of relying on the Firewire for power supply.

Going to try this tomorrow.
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