Topic: Hasselblad CFV-50c costs less than $10k in Japan (Read 30105 times)

synn · « **Reply #40 on:** October 13, 2014, 04:16:02 am »

There's nothing noisy about a Credo file unless you shoot in ISOs >100. Even the shadows are decently pushable, but don't expect 4+ stops of pushing, like with the Sony files.

torger · « **Reply #41 on:** October 13, 2014, 04:22:34 am »

Quote from: synn on October 13, 2014, 04:16:02 am

There's nothing noisy about a Credo file unless you shoot in ISOs >100. Even the shadows are decently pushable, but don't expect 4+ stops of pushing, like with the Sony files.

Sorry I wasn't too clear in my post, the noise was primarily referring to the Kodak, ie the older CFV-50. The Credo 40 is less noisy. The CFV-50 is low noise enough for me which is used to make pictures with both Canon (which of course is less good than the CFV-50) and older generation digital backs, but if you've shot with a D800 and similar cameras for a few years I guess it can be hard to go back. The CMOS CFV-50c will surely please in that regard if they haven't totally messed up in the implementation.

eronald · « **Reply #42 on:** October 13, 2014, 04:29:59 am »

Quote from: ErikKaffehr on October 13, 2014, 01:57:50 am

Bernard,

Have you seen the samples Guy Mancuso posted from the Leaf Credo 50? Same sensor the Hasselblad uses and Guy also posted raws, what a nice guy!

Best regards
Erik

Guy is not only nice, when it comes to photographing *things* he is very competent.

Edmund

ErikKaffehr · « **Reply #43 on:** October 13, 2014, 04:34:46 am »

Hi,

Guy Mancuso posted raw images from his Credo 50, no portaits unfortunately.

He posted portraits, but not as raw, unfortunately.

The stuff that Guy posted was definitevly good, in my eyes.

Best regards
Erik

Quote from: synn on October 13, 2014, 02:36:25 am

Corollary to the above, the Credo 50 indeed looks to be the exception to the rule and also, let's not discount Frank Doorhof's post processing skills. So yeah, if they offer the Credo 50 at 10K, my answer will change. But that's not gonna happen now, is it?

BernardLanguillier · « **Reply #44 on:** October 13, 2014, 05:04:24 am »

Thanks for the input.

Indeed, getting less DR than with my D810 wouldn't make that much sense.

Large movement isn't super critical, I can use the Betterlight if really required. The main value of using tech camera lenses would be image quality but I wonder if the investment would really be worth it considering the level of quality today with the Otus combo.

Hum... tough choices.

Cheers,
Bernard

torger · « **Reply #45 on:** October 13, 2014, 05:55:35 am »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier on October 13, 2014, 05:04:24 am

Indeed, getting less DR than with my D810 wouldn't make that much sense.

Large movement isn't super critical, I can use the Betterlight if really required. The main value of using tech camera lenses would be image quality but I wonder if the investment would really be worth it considering the level of quality today with the Otus combo.

Hum... tough choices.

As you probably know the tech lenses are great at smaller apertures. You're not going to get something like shooting an Otus at f/1.4, so for those that like to employ short DoF in their images tech camera is not the (best) answer. With Otus you have only two focal lengths, and none really wide, to me that's a limitation. The strength of tech cam is that you have many focal lengths all with very good performance when used in their optimal aperture range. Except for a few of the wide angles tech lenses are actually relatively cheap too if you buy them on a lens board with Copal shutter.

But then again, if you're not so interested in movements, I think the case for a tech cam gets weaker. The key reason why I myself went for a tech cam is because I have movements tilt and swing with all focal lengths, and I also like to shoot images is one shot. If you don't mind stitching you can of course get even better quality with spherical stitching than any tech wide angle lens can provide.

BernardLanguillier · « **Reply #46 on:** October 13, 2014, 06:19:10 am »

Quote from: torger on October 13, 2014, 05:55:35 am

As you probably know the tech lenses are great at smaller apertures. You're not going to get something like shooting an Otus at f/1.4, so for those that like to employ short DoF in their images tech camera is not the (best) answer. With Otus you have only two focal lengths, and none really wide, to me that's a limitation. The strength of tech cam is that you have many focal lengths all with very good performance when used in their optimal aperture range. Except for a few of the wide angles tech lenses are actually relatively cheap too if you buy them on a lens board with Copal shutter.

But then again, if you're not so interested in movements, I think the case for a tech cam gets weaker. The key reason why I myself went for a tech cam is because I have movements tilt and swing with all focal lengths, and I also like to shoot images is one shot. If you don't mind stitching you can of course get even better quality with spherical stitching than any tech wide angle lens can provide.

Tilt would be nice to have for those images where DoF stacking doesn't work. Shift is less critical. I have seen reports about the shift behavior of the Sony sensor but very few about tilt... which worries me a bit.

I would probably do spherical stitching anyway.

Then of course the look of some of those Zeiss lenses is pretty sweet and I have always wanted to experience the 503cw shooting style. Something I didn't find with my H1 years ago or Mamiya ZD that were basically DSLRs with nice viewfinders but lacking the perfection of my Nikons.

Now, look isn't that bad with my existing stuff, would it really be that different with legacy Zeiss lenses?

Globally it would still be a costly effort... tough choices.

Cheers,
Bernard

PebblePlace · « **Reply #47 on:** October 13, 2014, 06:59:41 pm »

The F/FE lenses can be mounted on a Pentax 645z via adapter. Exposure would be stop down metering - not fun, but workable.

ErikKaffehr · « **Reply #48 on:** October 13, 2014, 07:30:10 pm »

Hi,

If you are shooting large apertures on the "Blad" focusing will be critical. I don't know how well LV may work on the new back.

I did a "bokeh" shoot on flowers back in 2013 using the Planar 120/4 Macro on my Sony Alpha 99 and comparing it with my 70-400/4-5.6 G macro and a very old Minolta 200/8 macro. I didn't feel it was a lot of difference:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=77956.msg624435#msg624435

Raw images are here: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Articles/ThreeLenses/

But, these were shot at f/5.6 or so and not at full aperture.

Best regards
Erik

Quote from: BernardLanguillier on October 13, 2014, 06:19:10 am

Tilt would be nice to have for those images where DoF stacking doesn't work. Shift is less critical. I have seen reports about the shift behavior of the Sony sensor but very few about tilt... which worries me a bit.

I would probably do spherical stitching anyway.

Then of course the look of some of those Zeiss lenses is pretty sweet and I have always wanted to experience the 503cw shooting style. Something I didn't find with my H1 years ago or Mamiya ZD that were basically DSLRs with nice viewfinders but lacking the perfection of my Nikons.

Now, look isn't that bad with my existing stuff, would it really be that different with legacy Zeiss lenses?

Globally it would still be a costly effort... tough choices.

Cheers,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier · « **Reply #49 on:** October 22, 2014, 05:50:34 am »

I just noticed that the CFV-50C can now be purchased new from a reputed vendor in Tokyo at 970,000 Yen including taxes.

https://www.mapcamera.com/item/7392544342207

That is another 1,000 US$ cheaper than what was reported last week.

Cheers,
Bernard

eronald · « **Reply #50 on:** October 22, 2014, 06:01:09 am »

I guess Map does 10% points like Yodobashi - you get to buy additional wares for the free points.

Would be astonished if a discounter somewhere in Tokyo doesn't do 5% under that without the points - although one might need to pay cash.

Edmund

torger · « **Reply #51 on:** October 22, 2014, 06:24:42 am »

Wow... that's below my threshold. I can afford it, and it's "good enough value" for my money compared to the competition. That it doesn't work good enough with my preferred tech cam lens line is a show stopper for me though :-( I can only hope that this is not a one-off back but that there will be similar offers in future generations.

If this is the last V-mount back Hasselblad will make, then it could unfortunately be the only time we see this type of value for money being offered. I hope that won't be the case.

With the right lens choice and smaller amounts of movements it works on tech cams and package deals with the CFV-50c has been presented by European dealers recently. The pricing is originating from the $15k here though, but still much lower cost than other back alternatives. Hopefully the tech market will at last take off for Hasselblad with this back, and then maybe this new market will open their eyes for providing a lower cost back as a re-occurring event in their product line. Looking at the type of marketing the European tech dealers have it's clear that they sell a lot to price-sensitive amateurs, and I would not be surprised if there are more amateurs than professionals using tech cameras.

lelouarn · « **Reply #52 on:** October 22, 2014, 07:33:49 am »

I wonder if the Japan prices can also be had in Europe, with a bit of discussion. Anyone has experience negociating prices with Hasselblad (dealers) ?

eronald · « **Reply #53 on:** October 22, 2014, 07:56:36 am »

I expect Sinar will have a back soon using the same tech as Leica.
Edmund

Quote from: torger on October 22, 2014, 06:24:42 am

Wow... that's below my threshold. I can afford it, and it's "good enough value" for my money compared to the competition. That it doesn't work good enough with my preferred tech cam lens line is a show stopper for me though :-( I can only hope that this is not a one-off back but that there will be similar offers in future generations.

If this is the last V-mount back Hasselblad will make, then it could unfortunately be the only time we see this type of value for money being offered. I hope that won't be the case.

With the right lens choice and smaller amounts of movements it works on tech cams and package deals with the CFV-50c has been presented by European dealers recently. The pricing is originating from the $15k here though, but still much lower cost than other back alternatives. Hopefully the tech market will at last take off for Hasselblad with this back, and then maybe this new market will open their eyes for providing a lower cost back as a re-occurring event in their product line. Looking at the type of marketing the European tech dealers have it's clear that they sell a lot to price-sensitive amateurs, and I would not be surprised if there are more amateurs than professionals using tech cameras.

BernardLanguillier · « **Reply #54 on:** October 22, 2014, 08:42:12 am »

Quote from: eronald on October 22, 2014, 06:01:09 am

I guess Map does 10% points like Yodobashi - you get to buy additional wares for the free points.

Would be astonished if a discounter somewhere in Tokyo doesn't do 5% under that without the points - although one might need to pay cash.

In fact I don't believe they have a point system.

But it may be possible to find a bit cheaper still.

Now that remains a good pile of cash so if I ever decide to invest, I would probably buy from a retailer such as Map camera that I know I can trust and that has knowledgeable staff.

Cheers,
Bernard

eronald · « **Reply #55 on:** October 22, 2014, 03:33:21 pm »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier on October 22, 2014, 08:42:12 am

In fact I don't believe they have a point system.

But it may be possible to find a bit cheaper still.

Now that remains a good pile of cash so if I ever decide to invest, I would probably buy from a retailer such as Map camera that I know I can trust and that has knowledgeable staff.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bernard, you're right, Map seems to have no points.
Update on consulting their website, they do have points on their "used" gear.
https://www.mapcamera.com/item/3000009545424

Here's a link to an article about Map camera. As it points out, you usually get 5% "tax free" rebate with a foreign passport, and Yodobashi also will lower their prices if you show them an advert from elsewhere. I can't remember if I've been to Map, I bought some used equipment eg. 200/1.8 from places I found in the adverts of Nippon Kamera magazine.

http://www.martinbaileyphotography.com/2011/12/12/podcast-313-where-to-buy-camera-gear-in-tokyo-map-camera/

Edmund

BernardLanguillier · « **Reply #56 on:** October 22, 2014, 05:26:32 pm »

Quote from: eronald on October 22, 2014, 03:33:21 pm

Here's a link to an article about Map camera. As it points out, you usually get 5% "tax free" rebate with a foreign passport, and Yodobashi also will lower their prices if you show them an advert from elsewhere.

Yes, I guess they check for visa though... that may not work for me.

In the mean time, tax is now 8% in Japan so it is even more interesting.

Cheers,
Bernard

Ken R · « **Reply #57 on:** October 22, 2014, 09:00:16 pm »

What a difference a few years make.

Just looked at my past invoices from B&H (I was doing equipment inventory) and found the invoice for my Canon 1DS3 from March 2008, for $7999. I cringed. Of course, at the time no other DSLR had the same combination of excellent high res. full frame sensor and AF performance plus build quality and enough speed for good RAW shooting. Never mind that a few months later, during or just previous to that year's Photokina, Canon announced the 5D2 with a similar sensor, at less than half the price. Of course the sensor in the 5D2 ended up having a lot of shadow banding and the 1DS3 still is the Canon sensor with the most resolution and least shadow banding (almost none) combination.

And when I think about I have used that 1DS3 to make a LOT more money (net income) than that. A lot. So it's ok.

But nowadays it's gonna take one hell of a camera from Canon for me to spend that amount of money on a DSLR again.

synn · « **Reply #58 on:** October 22, 2014, 09:04:42 pm »

On the plus side, Ken; you're still better off than the guys who broke the piggy bank over a D3x.

Ken R · « **Reply #59 on:** October 22, 2014, 09:29:53 pm »

Quote from: synn on October 22, 2014, 09:04:42 pm

On the plus side, Ken; you're still better off than the guys who broke the piggy bank over a D3x.

jaja true. The D800/E/810 is a Killer. Humm but still the 3Dx used price has stabilized at around $3k. The 1DS3 around $2k.

Great deals IMHO. But yeah, not for the folks, like me, who got them new

Author Topic: Hasselblad CFV-50c costs less than $10k in Japan (Read 30105 times)