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Author Topic: What are options to frame/protect prints without glass  (Read 32718 times)

Robert Ardill

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Re: What are options to frame/protect prints without glass
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2014, 08:47:46 am »

Not really. Drawings, pastels, charcoals, watercolors... All should be framed behind glass. Only canvas art (paintings or prints) are usually presented without glass. But even those are sealed/varnished, otherwise they would have the same fate as the unprotected art on paper. Unfortunately papers are not as tough as canvas and not really compatible with varnishes.

Well I have to say that a lot of the time with my watercolors I don't put them behind glass because I don't like the reflections.  What I do is to varnish the watercolors using either an acrylic matte or satin varnish like the Liquitex or Atelier varnishes, or, what's much better but a bit harder to apply is a beeswax varnish (available from Winsor Newton or Michael Harding for example).  The vanishes are slightly milky when applied but dry clear.  The beeswax gives a wonderful depth and protection, and it can be buffed to give a sheen or gloss if you want.

I haven't tried it yet, but I don't see any reason why this couldn't be done on digital matte paper.  I think a fixative would need to be applied first - I've ordered a matte fixative from Ghiant, which I should get in a few days, so I'll be able to try it out.  The beeswax then gives a very durable finish that can be wiped clean.

The only problem I have with it is that the paper needs to be glued to a board, otherwise it won't be flat, but otherwise it works very well for watercolor papers.

I don't know about gloss, but I'll try it.  I suspect that it would be difficult to do it as it's a very delicate surface ... the varnish would probably need to be sprayed on rather than painted on, and you would need a very good spray gun, I expect (a bit like car bodywork spray guns, to give a very fine even spray).  I guess that might work: spray the fixative first then spray a gloss varnish.

Robert
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Gary Damaskos

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Re: What are options to frame/protect prints without glass
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2014, 09:48:25 am »

Quote
...or, what's much better but a bit harder to apply is a beeswax varnish (available from Winsor Newton or Michael Harding for example).  The vanishes are slightly milky when applied but dry clear.  The beeswax gives a wonderful depth and protection, and it can be buffed to give a sheen or gloss if you want.

I have black and white silver prints (darkroom days) that were coated with beeswax (learned in photography at college) that are just as you say about beeswax - adds depth and protects wonderfully.
Gary
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Pic One

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Re: What are options to frame/protect prints without glass
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2014, 11:36:44 am »

On a related note, ie. per using wax, came across this thread which you might find of interest:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=65647.0
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Robert Ardill

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Re: What are options to frame/protect prints without glass
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2014, 01:05:59 pm »

On a related note, ie. per using wax, came across this thread which you might find of interest:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=65647.0


Yes, thanks, very interesting.  So it seems that wax can be used on inkjet papers, good to know.  The wax is certainly a very good protection against the elements (for example, it's impossible to put watercolor paint down over the wax) and it's a technique that's been used for centuries.  Normally the wax is made from beeswax mixed with an oil like olive oil, but probably the newer mixes using petroleum jelly would be more chemically neutral and colorless (but more smelly, while drying :)).

Using a fixative first would seem to me a good idea though: first of all because the fixative will prevent (should prevent) any ink lift-off or smudging, and secondly because fixatives with UV filtration is available, if that is a concern (personally I would not be too worried about UV because most (I mean all) of my paintings/prints are displayed indoors, so the UV level would be pretty low (hopefully :)).

Robert
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Geraldo Garcia

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Re: What are options to frame/protect prints without glass
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2014, 02:28:24 pm »

Well I have to say that a lot of the time with my watercolors I don't put them behind glass because I don't like the reflections.  What I do is to varnish the watercolors using either an acrylic matte or satin varnish like the Liquitex or Atelier varnishes, or, what's much better but a bit harder to apply is a beeswax varnish (available from Winsor Newton or Michael Harding for example).  The vanishes are slightly milky when applied but dry clear.  The beeswax gives a wonderful depth and protection, and it can be buffed to give a sheen or gloss if you want.

Well, if that fit your aesthetics preferences, desired volume of labor per image and preservation standards, by all means do it. Nothing wrong with that.
Unfortunately it is not an option for my needs and most people I know that tried this route has given up by one reason or another.
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Pic One

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Re: What are options to frame/protect prints without glass
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2014, 02:29:28 pm »

It is interesting.. though to original topic, I'm curious about the reference that this Renaissance Wax does not apply well to matte papers.  A bit more reading found some references to turning images on matte paper to mush.

On the beeswax end of things, another informative site:
http://www.johnlovett.com/preservation.htm
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Robert Ardill

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Re: What are options to frame/protect prints without glass
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2014, 03:21:00 pm »

Well, if that fit your aesthetics preferences, desired volume of labor per image and preservation standards, by all means do it. Nothing wrong with that.
Unfortunately it is not an option for my needs and most people I know that tried this route has given up by one reason or another.

Yes, for sure.  I only wax/varnish watercolor paintings, and certainly not all of them.  It's a lot easier to contact-mount behind glass or acrylic (or with a mat). For inkjet prints it's really experimental at this stage and I wouldn't dream of sending a waxed print out to a customer.

I have tried varnishing a print on a Canson Arches (just a half a print actually) without a fixative and it looks perfect.  I've also tried the varnish on a gloss print ... and it looks TERRIBLE.  The varnish gets absorbed into the matte paper but just sits on top of the gloss and ruins it: the ink doesn't run or anything like that, but the fine gloss finish is kaput.

Robert
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Robert Ardill

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Re: What are options to frame/protect prints without glass
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2014, 03:27:35 pm »

It is interesting.. though to original topic, I'm curious about the reference that this Renaissance Wax does not apply well to matte papers.  A bit more reading found some references to turning images on matte paper to mush.


Yes, I don't know ... I've used the Winsor Newton and Dorland's beeswax.  Renaissance wax seems to be a synthetic wax ... can't imagine why it would be a problem on matte papers ... but there's only one way to find out for sure :)

Robert
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JeanMichel

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Re: What are options to frame/protect prints without glass
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2014, 03:54:38 pm »

Hi,
My small contribution to this subject: if you frame your own work for prospective clients show a sample of an image framed behind glass and the same behind a non-reflective glass such as Artglass. In almost every case they will choose the non-reflective options in spite of the additional cost.
Jean-Michel
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Robert Ardill

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Re: What are options to frame/protect prints without glass
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2014, 09:46:44 am »

One option that I've just tried out and seems to be quite good, if you don't want glass because of breakage problems shipping, is to use acrylic (which has the advantage of being completely clear, especially good quality cast acrylic); however we're then back to the problem of reflections. I laminated the acrylic sheet with a semi-matte laminate and that gets rid of the reflections.  With the laminate I have there is a slight dulling as the laminate isn't entirely clear, but it may be possible to get a better quality laminate that would do the job.

Robert
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huguito

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Re: What are options to frame/protect prints without glass
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2014, 03:12:49 pm »

What would be the best brand of wax to make a few tests?

Renaissance Waxis named in few posts I researched?

Anyone has a preference for a specific brand?

Do they come in different finish like Gloss, satin, etc?   
Or is this a case where the finish depends on how much you buff the coat of wax?

I would like to try it in a couple of different papers

Thanks
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Robert Ardill

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Re: What are options to frame/protect prints without glass
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2014, 03:44:27 pm »

What would be the best brand of wax to make a few tests?

Renaissance Waxis named in few posts I researched?

Anyone has a preference for a specific brand?

Do they come in different finish like Gloss, satin, etc?   
Or is this a case where the finish depends on how much you buff the coat of wax?

I would like to try it in a couple of different papers

Thanks

I have yet to try it on inkjet paper, but on watercolor paper I've found the Winsor Newton and Dorland's Wax Medium very good.  Here's a useful link: http://johnlovettwatercolorworkshop.com/painting-varnishes/

The amount of matte/gloss depends on how much you've buffed the coat of wax, but it seems that some wax varnishes are labelled as 'Matte'.  I don't know if that's just a marketing ploy or not ... the traditional waxes are a mixture of beeswax and a solvent like lanolin, so they will buff up if that's what you want.

I'm waiting on some inkjet fixative before trying the wax on inkjet paper.

Robert
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huguito

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Re: What are options to frame/protect prints without glass
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2014, 05:32:25 pm »

Ok   I just ordered some beeswax varnish from Blicks.
I will make a test on fine art paper and on baryta paper and compare them with uncoated prints.
I will let you guys know about the result.
Any additional info about how to apply the wax would be super helpful.

Hugo
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deanwork

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Re: What are options to frame/protect prints without glass
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2014, 09:47:56 am »

Apparently standard bee's wax contains acids that can effect the media over time. This was why Renaissance Wax was developed as a museum conservation product for furniture and paintings, etc. Unfortunately they don't recommend it for matt surface inkjet prints. Has anyone actually tried in on a cotton rag matte paper?

http://www.archivalmethods.com/product/renaissance-wax
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Gary Damaskos

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Re: What are options to frame/protect prints without glass
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2014, 10:19:28 am »

Just sharing some experience in case it is helpful:
  • Used regular pure beeswax on N surface polycontrast paper long long time ago on black and white print. Today there is absolutely no sign of any degradation.
  • Use Renaissance wax currently on polypropylene gloss overlam - and it is easy. Apply lightly, near instant drying, and buff. On a less than smooth surface I believe application and buffing with Renaissance will be daunting. Melted beeswax or the hopefully somewhat liquid newer compounds discussed in previous posts should be easier, and if on a rough surface, the ability to apply as much as needed to build up a thick enough layer to rise above the roughness will allow buffing. Buffing needs a pretty flat surface or - well - good luck based on my experience anyway.
Cheers,
Gary

PS - note this on the Renaissance wax use instructions: ... should not be used on matt surface papers. ...
« Last Edit: October 01, 2014, 02:28:12 pm by Gary Damaskos »
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Robert Ardill

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Re: What are options to frame/protect prints without glass
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2014, 12:53:49 pm »

I wonder if any of you have any updates on waxing matte papers?

I've tried Michael Harding Beeswax Paste and Dorland's Wax Medium on Canson Arches and they both kill the blacks.  If I buff the wax even a bit I get a glossy look which just doesn't cut it for me (the look of a watercolor paper is matte after all) ... and the buffing doesn't improve the blacks either.

The same waxes, applied on a very similar Arches watercolor paper (with watercolor paints) works really well ... no problem with the blacks and I don't buff the paper so the finish is matte.

So far, the best I've obtained with inkjet matte paper is a matte water-based varnish from Dulux!  No idea if it's pH neutral.

Doesn't look good from my end!

Robert
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Gary Damaskos

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Re: What are options to frame/protect prints without glass
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2014, 02:21:25 pm »

I wonder if any of you have any updates on waxing matte papers?

I've tried Michael Harding Beeswax Paste and Dorland's Wax Medium on Canson Arches and they both kill the blacks.  If I buff the wax even a bit I get a glossy look which just doesn't cut it for me (the look of a watercolor paper is matte after all) ... and the buffing doesn't improve the blacks either.

The same waxes, applied on a very similar Arches watercolor paper (with watercolor paints) works really well ... no problem with the blacks and I don't buff the paper so the finish is matte.

So far, the best I've obtained with inkjet matte paper is a matte water-based varnish from Dulux!  No idea if it's pH neutral.

Doesn't look good from my end!

Robert

I just received a bottle of Dorland's wax medium - which from the site information sounds wonderful of course - and soon I will see how this works on Red River Polar Matte 60# C1S, and will let you know. I expect to buff, cannot imagine not buffing, as I project that the unbuffed layer of wax would do what you describe - interfere with light transmission / add opaqueness. Did you come upon a reference of some kind suggesting you could apply thick and leave? As far as becoming gloss -do you mean gloss like gloss paper, or just a bit more sheen that before? I would like to test this on something like radiant water color or another "rough" paper and see what the process is like...eventually.

I will share when I get to doing this first test.
Thanks for sharing
Cheers
Gary
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Robert Ardill

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Re: What are options to frame/protect prints without glass
« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2014, 03:26:37 pm »

I just received a bottle of Dorland's wax medium - which from the site information sounds wonderful of course - and soon I will see how this works on Red River Polar Matte 60# C1S, and will let you know. I expect to buff, cannot imagine not buffing, as I project that the unbuffed layer of wax would do what you describe - interfere with light transmission / add opaqueness. Did you come upon a reference of some kind suggesting you could apply thick and leave? As far as becoming gloss -do you mean gloss like gloss paper, or just a bit more sheen that before? I would like to test this on something like radiant water color or another "rough" paper and see what the process is like...eventually.

I will share when I get to doing this first test.
Thanks for sharing
Cheers
Gary

Hi Gary,

No ... I've seen no instructions on how to do this with inkjet paper.  I tried various ways of applying the wax:
- with my finger
- with a cloth
- with a paintbrush (doesn't work well because I'm using Canson Arches Aquarelle Rag which is quite textured)
- with a paintbrush with the wax heated (goes right through the paper if you're not careful)
- remove excess and leave to dry without buffing
- remove excess and leave to dry then buff
- heat the wax with a hair drier to melt it and then leave to dry

In all cases the dark colors got flattened.  Buffing does make the paper reflective, so if you buff a lot you end up with a gloss look on a textured paper, which is a bit weird.

I wonder if something like a fixative would need to be applied first.

With watercolor and paint the flattening doesn't happen ... there has to be a way around this !!

Robert
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Paul Ozzello

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Re: What are options to frame/protect prints without glass
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2014, 09:26:21 pm »

I wonder if any of you have any updates on waxing matte papers?

I've tried Michael Harding Beeswax Paste and Dorland's Wax Medium on Canson Arches and they both kill the blacks.  If I buff the wax even a bit I get a glossy look which just doesn't cut it for me (the look of a watercolor paper is matte after all) ... and the buffing doesn't improve the blacks either.

The same waxes, applied on a very similar Arches watercolor paper (with watercolor paints) works really well ... no problem with the blacks and I don't buff the paper so the finish is matte.

So far, the best I've obtained with inkjet matte paper is a matte water-based varnish from Dulux!  No idea if it's pH neutral.

Doesn't look good from my end!

Robert

I'm curious about which Dulux varnish you used and if it kept the original look of the paper without killing the blacks

Robert Ardill

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Re: What are options to frame/protect prints without glass
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2014, 04:51:01 am »

I'm curious about which Dulux varnish you used and if it kept the original look of the paper without killing the blacks

Sorry, Paul, I made a mistake: it's Ronseal Quick-drying Varnish Clear Satin.  I had some that I used on some woodwork, so I thought I'd give it a try.  It's water-based.

It gave an excellent protection (what the long-lasting effect on the paint is I've no idea) and it improved the blacks - not the other way round as the waxes did.  The only thing I didn't much like about it (but it's still a LOT better than glass) is the satin sheen ... I'm looking a for a matte finish.  But I'll pick up some matte later and see what that looks like.

The satin would look good on gloss/luster papers ... the only thing is that it would need to be sprayed on, otherwise you would see the paint-brush lines.  On the matte paper the lines don't show at all, even with a loupe ... looks like the varnish just gets fully absorbed into the paper, so the lines disappear.

Robert

Robert
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