H4D body only, no value?

[torger]

I've started to look for second hand deals on a H4D-50 because of the tech cam friendly sensor and 100% focus check on screen.

Those are sold with body though, which would be unused by me. Am I right in my assumption that the body is inseparable, ie I can't sell it without the back? Can't be upgraded to a H4x or something either?

[voidshatter]

Are you sure you don't need an external battery for the Hasselblad back to work on a tech camera?

I thought that the P45+ is also a Kodak CCD which is tech-friendly (and with long exposure capability) so it is perhaps the best choice other than the IQ260 if your analysis of crosstalk is correct.

I was told that Hasselblad cameras depreciate significantly as second hand because once the serial number has been registered by the first owner then it can no longer be reused to qualify the Hasselblad Masters Award.

[Theodoros]

I've started to look for second hand deals on a H4D-50 because of the tech cam friendly sensor and 100% focus check on screen.

Those are sold with body though, which would be unused by me. Am I right in my assumption that the body is inseparable, ie I can't sell it without the back? Can't be upgraded to a H4x or something either?

Yep! ...that's right! May I suggest a CF back instead (cf-39 would be nice) or even a Dalsa 33mp one (Leaf 75/75s/7/7ii or Sinarback 75/75lv)? Personally, I would prefer a Kodak 22 sensor back (instead of 39), but 33mp is IMO the best sensor that Dalsa has ever made... All the above (Kodak 22&39 + Dalsa 33) are microlenses free...

[torger]

I will need an external battery yes. A drawback, but not too bad.

I have 33 megapixels today, I'd like to have 50, I find that to be a nice balance, also like the 49x37 sensor size. 39 megapixels is too small upgrade, and iq260 way too expensive.

Hasselblad is often quite cheap second hand, at least here in Sweden, but getting the body when you don't need it does make prices a bit less attractive of course.

[torger]

Yep! ...that's right! May I suggest a CF back instead (cf-39 would be nice) or even a Dalsa 33mp one (Leaf 75/75s/7/7ii or Sinarback 75/75lv)? Personally, I would prefer a Kodak 22 sensor back (instead of 39), but 33mp is IMO the best sensor that Dalsa has ever made... All the above (Kodak 22&39 + Dalsa 33) are microlenses free...

I have an Aptus 75. I want a bit more pixels and still keep a working focus check, and a good price. H4D-50 and Aptus-II 10 are about the only alternatives for that. I don’t like the wide aspect ratio of the Aptus-II 10, and the Hasselblad is more tech ultrawide friendly. The Hasselblad is a bit noisy in the shadows but I can deal with that.

The reason I want more pixels is to resolve a little bit more, and reduce aliasing in f/11 shots. Not sure how much difference it will make though.

[Theodoros]

I have an Aptus 75. I want a bit more pixels and still keep a working focus check, and a good price. H4D-50 and Aptus-II 10 are about the only alternatives for that. I don’t like the wide aspect ratio of the Aptus-II 10, and the Hasselblad is more tech ultrawide friendly. The Hasselblad is a bit noisy in the shadows but I can deal with that.

Why you want more pixels?

EDIT: Why you think the Kodak 50mp sensor is more tech camera friendly than the Dalsa 33mp one? ...it's the opposite actually!

[torger]

Why you want more pixels?

Added in edited message above. Resolve a bit more and reduce aliasing at f/11.

[Theodoros]

Added in edited message above. Resolve a bit more and reduce aliasing at f/11.

With what lenses and how much of movements are you going to resolve more? ...why you think that with the Kodak sensor you'll have less allizing? ...does your 75 have much of it?

EDIT: Have you tried your Aptus on a tech camera?

[torger]

With what lenses and how much of movements are you going to resolve more? ...why you think that with the Kodak sensor you'll have less allizing? ...does your 75 have much of it?

EDIT: Have you tried your Aptus on a tech camera?

I only shoot on a tech camera since a couple of years, lenses are SK Digitar 35xl, 47xl, 60xl, 72, 90, 120 and 180. Yes the Aptus have quite much of it in distant scenes, wavy water, grass fields and such, I shoot landscapes mainly. Less of an issue in closer scenes.

I hope the smaller pixel size will be more blurred by diffraction and also resolve a little more of the subject and that in combination will reduce aliasing. I know the lack of microlenses is not a plus concerning aliasing, but my current sensor have none either, so I hope it will be better.

I feel know that at f/11the imaged get too sharp and jagged to be ideal. The optical system is a bit underresolved, I prefer more balance between optics and sensor. If I can afford it that is :-)

All this is a bit off topic though, but I pull threads off topic myself all the time anyway... :-)

[Theodoros]

I only shoot on a tech camera since a couple of years, lenses are SK Digitar 35xl, 47xl, 60xl, 72, 90, 120 and 180. Yes the Aptus have quite much of it in distant scenes, wavy water, grass fields and such, I shoot landscapes mainly. Less of an issue in closer scenes.

I hope the smaller pixel size will be more blurred by diffraction and also resolve a little more of the subject and that in combination will reduce aliasing. I know the lack of microlenses is not a plus concerning aliasing, but my current sensor have none either, so I hope it will be better.

I feel know that at f/11the imaged get too sharp and jagged to be ideal. The optical system is a bit underresolved, I prefer more balance between optics and sensor. If I can afford it that is :-)

All this is a bit off topic though, but I pull threads off topic myself all the time anyway... :-)

I would stay with what I have if I was you... but anyway, since you are the master, H4 body "naked" is useless (up to now. unless if Hassy comes with some modification), you can't keep the back and sell the body alone... But if my lenses where of the H-system (which they are not), I would keep the body to use it with the back and lenses in parallel to my view camera... Remember that you do need a power supply solution to use an H4 back on a view camera since the back is not self powered... On the H4 it is powered through the H4 body.  Mind you that the only (MF) body you can use the back on is its dedicated one... You can't use it (as with all H3/H3ii/H4) on any other Hasselblad body. Only previous than the ones mentioned and H5 backs are supported by the H5X....

[jerome_m]

I am not sure what you consider "quite cheap" in Sweden, but I am considering parting with my H3DII-50 and the back is quite similar to the H4D-50 back... Make me an offer if this is what you want.

Anyway, to answer your questions:
-you will need some kind of battery to run the back on a tech cam, the battery should be connected via the firewire cable
-Hasseblad in Göteborg can match an H4 body to another back. Theoretically at least, you could find a H4D user wanting a spare body, have the body matched to his back and sell it that way.

[torger]

I would stay with what I have if I was you... but anyway, since you are the master, H4 body "naked" is useless (up to now. unless if Hassy comes with some modification), you can't keep the back and sell the body alone... But if my lenses where of the H-system (which they are not), I would keep the body to use it with the back and lenses in parallel to my view camera... Remember that you do need a power supply solution to use an H4 back on a view camera since the back is not self powered... On the H4 it is powered through the H4 body.  Mind you that the only (MF) body you can use the back on is its dedicated one... You can't use it (as with all H3/H3ii/H4) on any other Hasselblad body. Only previous than the ones mentioned and H5 backs are supported by the H5X....

Yep, I guess the hard truth is that I need to keep the body on the shelf, so I can sell it again if I want to change back later. Most sales are without lens, if I do get a 80/2.8 with it I would probably shoot one or two pictures for fun. If I get it without lens I would not spend many euros on getting one to play. The thing is that MF SLRs are totally wrong for the way I shoot. Either I shoot landscapes from tripod and then tech cam is the way to go for me, or I shoot hand-held action in available light, and then my Canon is the way to go.

I know about the external power requirement, it's not a plus but I can live with it. Established battery solutions exist. I can make a battery pocket on my sliding back if I want to.

[torger]

I am not sure what you consider "quite cheap" in Sweden, but I am considering parting with my H3DII-50 and the back is quite similar to the H4D-50 back... Make me an offer if this is what you want.

Anyway, to answer your questions:
-you will need some kind of battery to run the back on a tech cam, the battery should be connected via the firewire cable
-Hasseblad in Göteborg can match an H4 body to another back. Theoretically at least, you could find a H4D user wanting a spare body, have the body matched to his back and sell it that way.

Thanks. There are H3DII-50s too to get from time to time, but then I rather try to get a CFV-50 which is self-contained and has just as bad screen. The CFV-50 is harder to come by though, not many in the market. The reason H4D-50 is on my short list is that it has a working focus check which I have got used to having. It's not a 100% must, but it's convenient especially for tilt/swing tradeoff compositions so I can pay quite some extra to get it. There seems to be some H4D-50s that are just upgraded H3DII-50s, and those do not have a good focus check, so I need to get the right version.

[JV]

Thanks. There are H3DII-50s too to get from time to time, but then I rather try to get a CFV-50 which is self-contained and has just as bad screen. The CFV-50 is harder to come by though, not many in the market. The reason H4D-50 is on my short list is that it has a working focus check which I have got used to having. It's not a 100% must, but it's convenient especially for tilt/swing tradeoff compositions so I can pay quite some extra to get it. There seems to be some H4D-50s that are just upgraded H3DII-50s, and those do not have a good focus check, so I need to get the right version.

Make sure to check out Hasselblad Certified Pre-Owned as well:
http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/1064797/husa_cert_preowned.pdf
Not sure whether they would ship to Europe but it should give you a pretty good idea of the price.

[jerome_m]

The reason H4D-50 is on my short list is that it has a working focus check which I have got used to having.

What do you mean by a "working focus check"? What has been changed over the H3DII-50?

[Brent Daniels]

With the H4D model cameras I believe one could buy a separate spare body. This body had to be calibrated to the back at the factory to correct for any build variations and ensure exact chip alignment. You may want to check if this unwanted body of yours could be on sold as a spare body to a H4D user?

The H4D body & back does allow you to do a few things a tech camera cannot do. The camera can be focused, exposure settings adjusted, and fired tethered via fire wire. There are times it is just not possible to directly operate the camera without being in the frame, blocking light, or when booming the camera off a cliff edge. Just lately I put a camera up into the top corner of a room to get the view we wanted. Worked great.

Since you are basically getting the camera for free?

[Theodoros]

With Brent's latest post, I believe ALL questions on the matter have been answered....

[torger]

Thanks all for the valuable feedback. Probably smartest or at least easiest to keep the body, even if not using it. Makes it easier to sell.

[torger]

What do you mean by a "working focus check"? What has been changed over the H3DII-50?

I mean that it's possible to differ between a tack sharp and an almost sharp image. With the exception of the Aptus series none of the older backs provide that feature. You can zoom to 100% on all, but they render the image too soft so you can't see if it's tack sharp or just almost.

The newer H4D-50 should have the newer screen and with the latest firmware a one click 100% focus check feature, which I assume is usable. Haven't seen it in person yet so I don't know for sure. If it's not good I'm mistaken and then I see no reason to choose a H4D-50 over the self-contained CFV-50.

[Josef Isayo]

There's an H4D-50 on sale on Fred Miranda right now by a well known editorial photographer. My friend has one, shoots food/editorial and swears its the best image quality he's ever seen in MFDB.