In Camera Digital shift (Olympus E-M1)

[eronald]

This is kind of neat - although I'm not sure you really get any hardware movement.

In-Camera Digital Shift
Using two dials, firmware Version 2.0 features in-camera Digital Shift, or Keystone Compensation, allowing you to correct the converging lines of trapezoidal distortion in Live View, without the need for a shift lens or post-processing. In combination with 5-axis Image Stabilization, Dual FAST AF and its dust, splash and freezeproof body, in-camera Digital Shift makes the Olympus OM-D E-M1 ideal for capturing images of buildings from a variety of angles, in virtually any condition.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

This is kind of neat - although I'm not sure you really get any hardware movement.

Hi Edmund,

Posting this in the MF / Film / DB and Large Sensor forum is a 'bit of a stretch', isn't it? The 17.3x13 mm sensor of the OM-D E-M1 does not really qualify as a Large sensor ...

In-Camera Digital Shift
Using two dials, firmware Version 2.0 features in-camera Digital Shift, or Keystone Compensation, allowing you to correct the converging lines of trapezoidal distortion in Live View, without the need for a shift lens or post-processing.

Since this is introduced in a firmware upgrade, it is probably just a kind of crop (and interpolate?) mode.

Cheers,
Bart

[torger]

"Digital shift" could be replacing tech cams as we know it in the future, ie instead of shiftable lenses with large image circles you have a bit wider angle lens and point in the direction you want and remap the image. The same type of compositions can be made, and with high resolution lenses and sensors you would get adequate quality.

If you can do it directly in the back and watch the result on live view, you would not lose the joy of creating the finished image in camera.

In theory, the only thing you would need is a wide aperture wide angle lens with extremely high resolving power, combined with a super-high resolution sensor. Then you can do all compositions digitally. That's a longer stretch though. Remapping images shot with a tilted camera instead of shifting the lens is realistic today.

[eronald]

I would think that in a dSLR some tilt and also multi-shot Bayer+ pixel movements can be done with the stabilisation device. It's obvious that Pentax could introduce a stabiliser in their next gen if they wanted to; even if it doesn't stabilise it could still be used for these tricks - maybe even an in-lens stabiliser could help do them.

Bart -

 I believe most of the tech we now see in MF is at best 3 year old dSLR tech eg. the Sony sensor, the Pentax Z etc. Technology flows downhill from the cellphones which is where the chip and algorithms money now is to dSLRs where the "pro" features get integrated to MF where some recent dSLR tech gets sold at 10x the price every two years or so. So if we want to dicsuss new tech, we should be looking to the smaller formats eg. dSLR where they have already had the same sensors (Sony), time lapse features, live-view, video; wifi, external app control, HDMI out etc for quite a few years. And IMHO in body stabilization is going to be the next feature we might see, as Pentax have already incorporated optical stabilisation in their MF lenses.

 If we want new features in MF, we should cherry-pick what is out there in the dSLR tier.

 It didn't use to be this way, the CCD sensors in the old MF backs are descendants of military applications, and the cameras were basically the same old film bodies. But that is now history.

Edmund

[deejjjaaaa]

Since this is introduced in a firmware upgrade, it is probably just a kind of crop (and interpolate?) mode.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/09/16/olympus-e-m1-gets-handsome-new-body-color-new-firmware-features-including-t

Architecture photographers, meanwhile, will appreciate the ability to compensate for keystoning without post-processing or a tilt-shift lens, thanks to a new Digital Shift function that operates using the camera's stabilization system. While you won't get the same range of correction that you would with a tilt-shift optic, you won't need to be quite so precise in adjusting your camera position, as there's now latitude for correction on the camera itself.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Architecture photographers, meanwhile, will appreciate the ability to compensate for keystoning without post-processing or a tilt-shift lens, thanks to a new Digital Shift function that operates using the camera's stabilization system. While you won't get the same range of correction that you would with a tilt-shift optic, you won't need to be quite so precise in adjusting your camera position, as there's now latitude for correction on the camera itself.

So how much (how many millimetres or pixels) shift does one get?

Of course a small (17.3 x 13 mm) sensor doesn't need as much shift as a 35mm full frame (36 x24 mm) or a larger one, and with the shorter focal length each millimetre of shift counts extra. But optical or digital stabilization usually doesn't require huge displacements, just counteract small vibrations.

Cheers,
Bart

[eronald]

So how much (how many millimetres or pixels) shift does one get?

Of course a small (17.3 x 13 mm) sensor doesn't need as much shift as a 35mm full frame (36 x24 mm) one, and with the shorter focal length each millimetre of shift counts extra. But optical or digital stabilization usually doesn't require huge displacements, just counteract small vibrations.

Cheers,
Bart

Maybe this is a good way to combat shallow depth of focus issues on wides, and provide tilt.

Edmund

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Maybe this is a good way to combat shallow depth of focus issues on wides, and provide tilt.

Hi Edmund,

It supposedly supports 'some' shift, no tilt.

Cheers,
Bart

[pedro39photo]

? MF / Film / DB and Large Sensor forum threat ?

This post? don´t the forum have any moderators, to move this post ?

[Manoli]

This post? don´t the forum have any moderators, to move this post ?

Tilt and shift photography was previously the domain of large format photographers ( think Ansel Adams on his 10x8). Today 'Scheimpflug' photography is still much practiced, but large format has shrunk over the decades, much like telephones - m43 is now a large format sensor ...

[/do-I-need-to-add-one ?]

[eronald]

Hi Edmund,

It supposedly supports 'some' shift, no tilt.

Cheers,
Bart

Hi Bart,

 I think the in-body stab actuators have been really underused. Maybe when the Jenoptik patents run out ...

Edmund

[deejjjaaaa]

It supposedly supports 'some' shift, no tilt.

this is what E-M1 IBIS allegedly (by Olympus) compensate (in terms shift/rotation)



so imagine body stable then you can actually do manipulate the sensor plane in all those directions/rotations

PS: pictured is E-P5 which has the same IBIS as E-M1

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

so imagine body stable then you can actually do manipulate the sensor plane in all those directions/rotations

Not really. It detects camera rotation/acceleration in 3-planes.

That doesn't mean that the sensor rotates in opposite directions, it just needs to correct the reduced size projected image movement (shift) on a flat plane. So, for instance, pure rotation around the optical axis will not rotate the sensor.

Cheers,
Bart

[tsjanik]

........... It's obvious that Pentax could introduce a stabiliser in their next gen if they wanted to; even if it doesn't stabilise it could still be used for these tricks - maybe even an in-lens stabiliser could help do them.............

.
Edmund

Edmund,

Pentax introduced shift and tilt with the K-7; however the amount of movement is not very great.  It will automatically correct for a tilted horizon too.

Tom

From a review of the K-5*:

Composition correction. One of the more unusual features of the K-7 is retained for the Pentax K-5, and relies on its sensor-shift image stabilization mechanism. When shooting on a tripod, it is possible to fine-tune your framing by manually controlling the position and rotation of the image sensor. Like the K-7, with Shake Reduction enabled, a total of two degrees rotation and three millimeters of horizontal or vertical adjustment (one degree and 1.5mm on either side of the centered position) are available. If the sensor is tilted, the available horizontal / vertical adjustment range may be reduced by as much as 1mm on either side of the centered position, potentially restricting the adjustment range to 2mm total on either axis."

So, you can keep that "one degree and 1.5mm on either side of the centered position" is available from the sensor. For more you should use a PC lens.


*   http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/K5/K5A.HTM

[deejjjaaaa]

Not really. It detects camera rotation/acceleration in 3-planes.

That doesn't mean that the sensor rotates in opposite directions, it just needs to correct the reduced size projected image movement (shift) on a flat plane. So, for instance, pure rotation around the optical axis will not rotate the sensor.

Cheers,
Bart

E-M1 IBIS can rotate the sensor around optical axis,  http://petapixel.com/2013/06/05/olympus-5-axis-image-stabilization-may-soon-arrive-on-sony-a-mount-cameras/

[eronald]

Tsjanik,

Thanks for the info. I think people with view camera experience should pitch in (pun intended) to tell us how a small amount of tilt changes images.

Edmund

Edmund,

Pentax introduced shift and tilt with the K-7; however the amount of movement is not very great.  It will automatically correct for a tilted horizon too.

Tom

From a review of the K-5*:

Composition correction. One of the more unusual features of the K-7 is retained for the Pentax K-5, and relies on its sensor-shift image stabilization mechanism. When shooting on a tripod, it is possible to fine-tune your framing by manually controlling the position and rotation of the image sensor. Like the K-7, with Shake Reduction enabled, a total of two degrees rotation and three millimeters of horizontal or vertical adjustment (one degree and 1.5mm on either side of the centered position) are available. If the sensor is tilted, the available horizontal / vertical adjustment range may be reduced by as much as 1mm on either side of the centered position, potentially restricting the adjustment range to 2mm total on either axis."

So, you can keep that "one degree and 1.5mm on either side of the centered position" is available from the sensor. For more you should use a PC lens.


*   http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/K5/K5A.HTM

[torger]

In studio/closeup you usually need large amounts of tilt to make it useful. In landscape photography a tilt range of 3 degrees will bring you far. 2 degrees as in this camera may be a bit low, but for shorter focal lengths it's often all you need. As the sensor is small the focal lengths will be shorter and then I guess 2 degrees can do much. You would need to be able to set this tilt manually though to make tilted compositions.

Tilting among consumers is usually only used for gimmicks like "miniature simulation", rather than solving depth of field problems. For the gimmicks you generally need more amounts of tilt than for DoF problem solving.

[deejjjaaaa]

I wonder if can see multishot Olympus or Pentax cameras in some future...

[eronald]

as soon as someone magiclanterns them

[araucaria]

I believe some Pentax dslrs also have this feature. But I don't see the point, m43 lenses can be great but I don't think they can compete with the professional options on larger formats.
Regarding DOF on wides, everything you gain from using wider lenses on a small sensor you will loose to diffraction, there is no magic here. A 12mm @f5.6 will behave like a 24 f11 (35mm) lens, with the same diffraction problems and the same DOF. In fact the only benefits in DOF while changing sensor sizes is with shallow DOF and large sensors, where the DOF seems to hold longer and then rapidly faints to blur (the famous MF-LF portrait look).
The only thing that might be interesting is the short flange distance, but digital sensors still need the telecentricity.