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Author Topic: Critical Failure of Ink delivery system across Canon iPFX4XX range  (Read 6131 times)

samueljohnchia

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Critical Failure of Ink delivery system across Canon iPFX4XX range
« on: September 15, 2014, 09:02:09 pm »

Just sharing some experience that I have been having over the past months dealing with Canon latest iPFX4XX printers. Some of you may already be aware of some of the issues I have been facing from my recent posts on the forum. I sincerely hope that those of you with the lastest model of this printer can confirm:

1. If your printers are made in China or Japan and what is the model number? (Models in Asia have an extra 10 added to the numeric digits, e.g. iPF8410 vs iPF8400)

2. What your nozzle print out looks like in service mode.


Here is what I have been observing: Canon iPF printers of the X4XX range have critical ink delivery issues. I have tried 2 totally brand new iPF8410 printers, both defective right out of the box, and also one demo very new iPF6460 printer, hardly used, about 1 year old now. I first tried this printer right after it was set up by my dealer one year ago and already it was showing ink delivery problems. I see nozzle misbehavior of all sorts. In its mildest form, my first iPF8410 started to show very subtle microbanding and a very slight loss of color gamut. When the service tech came and did the service model nozzle check, there was irregular non-ejection of nozzles in the pattern. All the iPF printers I have tried show this irregular non-ejection. My replacement brand new iPF8410 shows this problem to a much more severe degree and now the Left Print Head is not firing any color at all, although nozzle checks still show that nozzles are firing, just irregular. No error warning messages, nothing. A brand new head replacement did not solve the problem. The iPF6460 has misfiring, causing random dropouts to occur in the print.

If the probability of these printers being defective when shipped from the factory is 1 in 1000, then its a 1 in 1 billion chance that all three I encountered have gone wrong. Or maybe there is something problematic about the manufacturing of these new printers.

I advise all who own these printers to perform a service model nozzle check as well as to study closely your prints for micro banding, which does not go away with any printhead alignment, auto or manual, or even the initial installation print alignment, which is the most precise alignment available. Because something is not perfect in the ink delivery system, print output is highly variable and the dot pattern is irregular. Cleanings do not solve the problems. Head replacements may not totally solve it either.

To perform the service mode nozzle check, start your printer in service mode by holding the LOAD and NAVIGATE buttons on the printer while pressing the ON button. You should see an "S" on the top right of the LCD after it has started to show it is in service mode. Navigate to the fourth manu panel on the right (the last one), press OK, see that SERVICE menu item is selected, press OK, then press the right arrow button until you see ADJUST, then press the down arrow button. You will see NOZZLE 1. Press ok and a Service Mode nozzle check pattern will be printed.

Here is an example of regular and irregular non-ejection of nozzles in a service mode nozzle check:



Here is a list of possible bad patterns:



I really appreciate everyone's contribution if you can spare the time to check your own printers if they are in good working condition. If your nozzles are not firing perfectly and your printhead is still under warranty, now is a good time to quickly call Canon for a free replacement. If the problem is severe like in all three of my encounters with these new printers, the mainboard or carriage assembly may need to be replaced.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 07:28:44 pm by samueljohnchia »
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Geraldo Garcia

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Re: Critical Failure of Ink delivery system across Canon iPFX4XX range
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2014, 05:56:06 pm »

Samuel,

I will answer your survey, but before that let me state a few things objectively:

As far as I know (sure I can be wrong) all IPFx4xx are made in China. I can tell you for sure that mine is (Brazil), the one I saw on the Photokina 2012 was made in China also and a friend from U.S. has a IPF6400 also made in China.
The IPF printers remap clogged nozzles and the regular nozzle check display what is actually being used to print. If the regular nozzle check displays a problem, than you have a problem. If it is OK, it means the printheads should be able to print as expected. The service mode nozzle check tries to print from all nozzles, so it usually shows some missing areas. That is normal and it only serves as a reference, as we can see approximately how many nozzles have been remapped and estimate how close we are to a head change. But if the regular nozzle check is "ok" the printer should be able to print perfectly.

I am sorry for your troubles and is quite evident that something is not right on your area/country.

Answering your questions:
IPF8400 made in China, 8 months of regular use and not a problem so far.
The regular nozzle check is perfect and the service mode nozzle check has less than one gap (average) per color grid, randomly placed.
I have not experienced any of your problems.

I hope you find a solution and, please, keep us posted.
   
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deanwork

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Re: Critical Failure of Ink delivery system across Canon iPFX4XX range
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2014, 06:40:49 pm »

He's right. The IPF LF printers have redundant nozzles, it was part of the design of the heads. When the sensor notices a bad nozzle it remaps it to another usable nozzle. It is kind of a nice concept. You don't sit there doing head cleanings, and trying to use windex and paper towels to clear a nozzle or two.  This goes on for the life of the head. When all the redundant nozzles are used up the head has to be replaced.
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samueljohnchia

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Re: Critical Failure of Ink delivery system across Canon iPFX4XX range
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2014, 07:32:00 pm »

Geraldo and John, thank you for your contributions. I keep learning more about these printers every day I work with them.

It really sounds like all iPFX4XX printers are made in China.

Regarding the nozzle checks, I am well aware that the heads have many redundant nozzles. 2560 for each color channel. I always thought that the nozzle check in normal mode should suffice to tell us about whether the ink delivery is working or not. However, when I told the technician about that (and he is not the local Singapore technician, he is the regional technician of South East Asia, very knowledgeable and experienced) he said to never trust the normal mode nozzle check because the print outs are compensated for. He says you must check the service mode nozzle check to get the true picture, because you may accidentally think a nozzle is working in the normal mode, but in service mode you can see there is clearly a problem. He also says that when filing technical reports to Canon Japan, they must attach a print out of the service mode nozzle check.

But if the regular nozzle check is "ok" the printer should be able to print perfectly.

I initially found all this surprising and argued on for a while with the technician that I am using the printer in normal mode, so of course the compensation is happening, so the normal mode nozzle check should suffice. He laughed and told me no I am wrong. Sure enough, all the normal mode nozzle checks of these three printers are fine, but they are not in service mode, and they all have problems. The iPF8410 sitting at my place right now is not firing any C, M, Y or K from the left head but the nozzle check in normal mode is perfect. Not so in service mode.

Yesterday morning I was at my dealer's and they have an iPF8300 which they print with every day for the past few years. Made in Japan. I made a close study of the pinch rollers which were giving me problems in my previous 8410. The axles were not aligned through the center of the grey rubber rollers (there are 56 of them in total btw) and they rock about all over the place causing roller marks. The Japan 8300 had only 2 that were rocking about very slightly. My 8410 have about 40 that rock, and of that 10 or so rock about quite badly.

As a test for roller marks I feed a paper through the rollers back and forth using the printer's feed function. I only need to do that once to see deep depressions on paper on my iPF8410. On my dealer's iPF8300, I did it over 20 times until I got bored and stopped. Not a mark in sight. Wow. That's more like what I'm used to - I had a Japan iPF8100 for 4.5 years.

« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 07:34:19 pm by samueljohnchia »
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Geraldo Garcia

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Re: Critical Failure of Ink delivery system across Canon iPFX4XX range
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2014, 09:08:27 pm »

Well Samuel,

I can only imagine your frustration. Dealing with such huge companies with so many subsidiaries is maddening sometimes.

Regarding the nozzle checks, I am well aware that the heads have many redundant nozzles. 2560 for each color channel. I always thought that the nozzle check in normal mode should suffice to tell us about whether the ink delivery is working or not. However, when I told the technician about that (and he is not the local Singapore technician, he is the regional technician of South East Asia, very knowledgeable and experienced) he said to never trust the normal mode nozzle check because the print outs are compensated for. He says you must check the service mode nozzle check to get the true picture, because you may accidentally think a nozzle is working in the normal mode, but in service mode you can see there is clearly a problem. He also says that when filing technical reports to Canon Japan, they must attach a print out of the service mode nozzle check.

I initially found all this surprising and argued on for a while with the technician that I am using the printer in normal mode, so of course the compensation is happening, so the normal mode nozzle check should suffice. He laughed and told me no I am wrong. Sure enough, all the normal mode nozzle checks of these three printers are fine, but they are not in service mode, and they all have problems. The iPF8410 sitting at my place right now is not firing any C, M, Y or K from the left head but the nozzle check in normal mode is perfect. Not so in service mode.

By all means I have no reason to discredit this technician, but from my personal experience even the most competent and knowledgeable of them usually repeats half trues learned from others. What he said can't be entirely true. It makes no sense! Why would the printer print a "fake" nozzle check? Also, if your printer is not firing any C, M, Y and K, how on earth it manages to print a perfect regular nozzle check? What I can gather as truth is that your problem is not related to clogged/dead nozzles. That can be true and that may justify the need of a service mode nozzle check. But it is completely different from saying that the regular nozzle check is useless. I believe the fact that your printers are able to print a perfect nozzle check but fail to print images properly is indeed a clue to where the problem lies.

Sure enough you have found a recurring problem and they are avoiding it.

Please keep us posted as (knock on wood) tomorrow it may happen to any of us.
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samueljohnchia

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Re: Critical Failure of Ink delivery system across Canon iPFX4XX range
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2014, 07:02:08 am »

I can only imagine your frustration. Dealing with such huge companies with so many subsidiaries is maddening sometimes.

Thank you Geraldo. Your encouragement, and also John's in my other thread is heartwarming and assuring. I thought I was going crazy with all these problems. This is my 8th year of owning Canon iPF printers, using them for fine art printing on a variety of papers, and never have I ever encountered any of these problems before, nor heard about them.

Quote
By all means I have no reason to discredit this technician, but from my personal experience even the most competent and knowledgeable of them usually repeats half trues learned from others. What he said can't be entirely true. It makes no sense! Why would the printer print a "fake" nozzle check?

Exactly! Why would it do that?

And guess what, the tech tells me that Canon Japan passed on information saying that the PF-05 print heads are recommended (did not say "needs") to be changed every year. Dying heads have ink clogged in them. Waiting for the printer to tell you to change the heads, which can be years down the road, is not ideal because ink gets clogged in the nozzle chambers, the head overheats and then shorts and takes out the main PCB. It is bad heads that are taking out so many iPF8300 PCBs. That was how he explained it to me. I was like - OMG CHANGE THEM EVERY YEAR?!? No one has ever said that before. He was like you can believe me or not, but Canon Japan passed on this information to all the techs around the world.

Maybe you can check with your best tech guy in your region whether this is true - that would make the story from Canon consistent at least :-)

I will certainly update the thread as I learn more about what is going on.

P.S.
Recently I had the opportunity to work with the SU-21 spectro unit for the iPF64xx printer and learned some invaluable things. I have created custom media files for 8 papers and Breathing Color Lyve Canvas so far, with Calibration reference data so custom media calibration can be made. I have not been able to test the advantages of having a custom calibration vs common calibration. The base media settings and inking choices as well as head height settings are all optimized for each paper. Finding out the optimal settings for each paper is very time consuming, many hours for each paper and wastes a great deal of ink and paper, but thus far I have consistently derived better custom media files than the paper manufacturers. The differences are worth it. I plan to offer these media files for download in the future, and perhaps document the whole process. I am still experimenting and finding better ways of delivering ink to paper with these iPFX4XX printers.
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samueljohnchia

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Re: Critical Failure of Ink delivery system across Canon iPFX4XX range
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2014, 09:55:59 pm »

Update:

My Canon printer appears to be ok after a series of repairs. I detail the progress of the parts changed below, and some conjectures. The main problem was banding in the magenta channel, because there was regular non-ejection of the printhead nozzles, something not observable in the normal nozzle check, only in the service mode nozzle check.

1. The Left Print Head was changed. Slight improvement - the topmost row of non-ejecting nozzles was firing again. But all the bottom rows of non-ejecting nozzles remained. Since their position did not change, the tech ruled out that it was a print head issue.

So over the next few weeks:
2. The Carriage Assembly was replaced next. No improvement.
3. The Main PCB was replaced next. No improvement.
4. The Flex Data Cable was replaced next. No improvement.
5. The Power PCB was replaced next. No improvement.

6. The the tech replaced the left print head again, as a precautionary measure. Now all the nozzles are firing.

One guess was that the first and second print head were from the same manufacturing batch and somehow left the factory with near identical defects - only the bottom rows of the magenta channel are not firing.

Another guess was that the Main PCB corrupted those particular nozzles somehow, due to some fault in the electrical aspect of the system. Maybe it shorted and killed those nozzles. So when the second print head was put it, it was corrupted too and remain that way until it was replaced later.

I would never know exactly what caused the failure of the head for this event because neither the tech nor I wanted to perform a head replacement (consumes 17g of ink per color channel) after each component was replaced. Plus since all the bottom non-ejecting nozzles remained, we didn't believe two heads could have the exact same problem nozzles. The probability of that is too obscure.

Edit: I previously said 'irregular non-ejection' when it should be regular non-ejection.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 01:44:46 am by samueljohnchia »
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Geraldo Garcia

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Re: Critical Failure of Ink delivery system across Canon iPFX4XX range
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2014, 11:53:53 pm »

So... good news at last!
It is a shame that it took so long and that you had to fight so hard for Canon to acknowledge the existence of the problem. I hope they will keep track of the production batches of the heads and PCB to identify the problem, that clearly is a batch problem as it happened with two printers at least. 
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samueljohnchia

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Re: Critical Failure of Ink delivery system across Canon iPFX4XX range
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2014, 01:52:30 am »

I'm running a series of tests for now to make sure the printer is back to normal. The regional tech guy is also coming down later this week to print a PNR file to the printer, to send to Canon Japan for analysis.

Canon threw away the first print head and PCB, so no one will ever know what really went wrong. The second bad print head will be sent to Japan for analysis, I was told.

The other iPF8410 had different ink delivery problems - it was a very dry printer. It was not hitting the densities it should be, with the densities going down over time. The tech noted that there were an abnormal number of missing nozzles for such new heads.

The iPF6460 at my dealer's has irregular non-ejection of nozzles, and misfiring nozzles for the glossy black channel. Not good!

Interesting to note, the PF-05 head has undergone 4 revisions so far, to improve reliability issues and to resolve early failures on the earlier versions of the heads. Look at the label of the box your print head comes in - the last three digits. It says 040 now. The tech told me that indicates the number of revisions. Look out for when you see a 050!
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Landscapes

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Re: Critical Failure of Ink delivery system across Canon iPFX4XX range
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2014, 01:00:48 pm »

All interesting stuff... can you post your new nozzle check from the service menu?  How much better is it than the one you posted first?  Are there any bad nozzles from a brand new head?
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samueljohnchia

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Re: Critical Failure of Ink delivery system across Canon iPFX4XX range
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2014, 08:23:47 pm »

As requested, here is a before - after comparison of the nozzle check.

Landscapes, I took a look again at your nozzle check print out in service mode, and it looks pretty bad. Do you notice any problems in your prints?

Are there any bad nozzles from a brand new head?

Yes, it is definitely possible to have bad nozzles in a brand new head. Heck, some brand new heads don't even work and return an error code upon install. Canon made revisions to the PF-05 heads because there were many failures early on. There will always be production issues.
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Landscapes

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Re: Critical Failure of Ink delivery system across Canon iPFX4XX range
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2014, 09:35:56 pm »

Wow.. looks perfect.. congrats!

Although my nozzle check does bother me in the blue, I have no issues at all.  Funnily enough, I have had blue inks blobs before in random places whenever I printed on canvas. When it came time to do a print head exchange, I thought it would solve the problem but it still came up, very rare now though.  So its odd that some nozzles are missing.  I do find when I print with lots and lots of blue that sometimes I do get banding, but for these prints, I just make the head pause for 1 second after each pass.  Perhaps the blue channel isn't getting all the ink it needs, I'm not sure.  But I do print quite a bit and have been problem free for a very long time so I'm not too concerned.  I do wish I knew about the nozzle check from the service menu so I could track the health of my printhead and see how it looks right when new heads were installed, but oh well.

I still think that given all the options available (Epson, HP and Canon), the Canon is the best.  I feel bad for the guys having to change out boards, but if its just the head, at least this can be done by the user.
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samueljohnchia

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Re: Critical Failure of Ink delivery system across Canon iPFX4XX range
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2014, 11:22:25 pm »

Thank you  :)

In my case the regional tech is in agreement that it is not a print head issue per se. It might be a print head and another component failure, with the faulty component taking out the second head. Until that component was replaced and a third head installed, the problem was not solved.

A little bit of working perfection magic is just what the doctor ordered - after 4.5 months of hair tearing with Canon! While my faith in their machines is a little shaken, overall we are in agreement that it is the better printer.

I would keep these nozzle check print outs and perform a check every 3 months. It would be interesting to observe closely what happens in the long term and how it affects the print quality.

Blue ink blobs (depending on what they look like) sound like misfiring nozzles? Banding specific to the blue channel is not good. If you perform the initial head alignment on a glossy paper, and you notice that the blue channel sections have banding, it is an indication that something is wrong.

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Landscapes

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Re: Critical Failure of Ink delivery system across Canon iPFX4XX range
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2014, 01:23:17 pm »

The blue blobs were literally drops of ink... as in a puddle.  It was almost as if the printhead wasn't sealed properly against the printhead holder where the ink lines come in so there was a leak somewhere.  Maybe its just ink that accumulated on the side of the printhead that wasn't wiped off, since I think there are wipers in the capping station, but it was only ever the blue.  So the fact that I have this same color as where my nozzle check looks a little funny is suspicious, but oh well.  It works right now so I'm not gonna do anything just now.

Doing a new true nozzle check every month or so is what I am doing and so far I have no changes.  It sure would be nice to know how many nozzles can be remapped.  Wouldn't it be great if in addition to the printer telling you how full each cart is and how full the maintenance cart, it would also tell you the percentage of nozzles left that can be remapped????
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