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Author Topic: Varnishing MATTE papers - what are my options ?  (Read 5393 times)

Paul Ozzello

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Varnishing MATTE papers - what are my options ?
« on: September 12, 2014, 02:25:35 pm »


Hi all,

I've been going through all the threads on varnishing and testing all sorts of products and still can't come up with a satisfying result.

After lots of trial and error I finally found a good solution and getting great dMax on MATTE paper using Epson Hot Press Natural and printing from QTR. I mount my images on Dibond with a floating frame without glass to preserve the beauty of the print - but they're super fragile....

I've tried :

1) Rolling and spraying Timeless Matte - beautiful finish but leaves a cloudy vail and KILLS dmax
2) same issues with Glamour II
3) Krylon Kamar - great blacks but leaves a strange texture on matte paper
3.5) Various Water based finishes from Golden etc (same problems with vail and killing dMax)

So far the only things that look good are

4) Hahnemuhle protective spray and Lascaux fixativ, unfortunately these products really don't do much to protect from scratches and marring.
5) Krylon Workable Fixative also looks good and seems slightly more protective but still scratches too easily.

From what I've read, there are only two real solutions, water based acrylic finishes and solvent based ones. The water based finishes seems to create a nice protective coating while the solvent based versions do not.

I'm interested in trying the following products and wonder if anyone has any experience they would like to share :

6) Premier Eco Print Shield (this is water based and I have a hunch it will look similar to Timeless)
7) Premier Print Shield  (this is the solvent based version)
8) ClearStar ClearJet and ClearStar ClearShield
9) Moab Desert Varnish Spray (a solvent based lacquer that claims to improve scratch resistance)
10) a combination of a spray fixativ and Renaissance Wax - though I heard it shouldn't be used on matte papers...
11) spraying a fixativ and hand rubbing some other type of non-yellowing lacquer or "art" varnish

Are there any miracle products I've overlooked ?

This is the look I'm going for (yes it was a chilly day ;-)




Paul

dgberg

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Re: Varnishing MATTE papers - what are my options ?
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2014, 03:32:45 pm »

Paul,
The problem is the matte finish.
If you invision a piece of wax paper over your art that is what a matte finish will look like in most cases.
Any of the others mentioned in gloss or semi gloss should work fine.
I have used clear shield FA 2000 on hot press bright and it looks great.
Just donot over finish and you can get a nice soft look.

framah

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Re: Varnishing MATTE papers - what are my options ?
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2014, 04:52:01 pm »

Look into the possibility of laminating the print with a matte laminate.
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smjphoto

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Re: Varnishing MATTE papers - what are my options ?
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2014, 09:03:22 pm »

I've always used glossy for all but the final coat. This really reduces the haziness. Then I sometimes will mix gloss and matte for the final coat. Keeping the build up low to avoid a plastic look and reducing the gloss with a matte finish can really help to minimize visually the fact that there is any kind of clear coat at all.
Stuart
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Paul Ozzello

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Re: Varnishing MATTE papers - what are my options ?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2014, 10:04:11 pm »

Paul,
The problem is the matte finish.
If you invision a piece of wax paper over your art that is what a matte finish will look like in most cases.
Any of the others mentioned in gloss or semi gloss should work fine.
I have used clear shield FA 2000 on hot press bright and it looks great.
Just donot over finish and you can get a nice soft look.

Thanks for the recommendation, I just ordered some and will give it a try. Since the matte varnish contains dulling agents, could a gloss version be used instead and rubbed with 000 steel wool to get a similar effect ?

Paul Ozzello

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Re: Varnishing MATTE papers - what are my options ?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2014, 10:04:58 pm »

I've always used glossy for all but the final coat. This really reduces the haziness. Then I sometimes will mix gloss and matte for the final coat. Keeping the build up low to avoid a plastic look and reducing the gloss with a matte finish can really help to minimize visually the fact that there is any kind of clear coat at all.
Stuart

I might give that a try next time but all my prints are already mounted on the Dibond...

Paul Ozzello

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Re: Varnishing MATTE papers - what are my options ?
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2014, 10:07:10 pm »

I've always used glossy for all but the final coat. This really reduces the haziness. Then I sometimes will mix gloss and matte for the final coat. Keeping the build up low to avoid a plastic look and reducing the gloss with a matte finish can really help to minimize visually the fact that there is any kind of clear coat at all.
Stuart

I'll have to give it a try but I only have 1 really light coat of the timeless matte and it's terrible. Are you saying that since the gloss would increase D-max, that the final matte would limit the total loss ?

smjphoto

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Re: Varnishing MATTE papers - what are my options ?
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2014, 10:54:55 pm »

i would suspect that a really light coat of matte is part of the problem. I do believe it would be better w gloss first, but I haven't ever compared to a light coat of matte.
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huguito

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Re: Varnishing MATTE papers - what are my options ?
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2014, 02:55:09 am »

Out of the ones you mentioned not tried yet I have used is the Clear Jet on Epson Hot Press Bright.
They called "Type AFA Fine Art Low Gloss". It dries with a really nice matte finish.
Looks beautiful, make the blacks pop and increase depth and contrast, but it doesn't protect much against scratches when I run my fingernails on the print surface.

On the ongoing, expensive and seems never ending quest of finding the best finish I ordered also couple of cans of Hanhemuleh spray, just got them, too bad you mentioned it doesn't protect from scratches after testing it. I have not tried yet.

I like a bit of Satin on my finish. The coating I like by far the best is Polycrilic water base, from Minwak, dilluted on Purified water at 20 or 25 %
On the Hot Press and the Exhibition canvas looks to be bullet proof and has a beautiful finish.
They make this as Gloss and Satin, no matte finish.

Please keep updating your findings, love to find something with a matte finish, strong protection and without the look of wax paper

Hugo

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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Varnishing MATTE papers - what are my options ?
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2014, 04:18:31 am »

On matte canvas I always apply gloss varnish to create the layer for protection and keep/enhance the image contrast. Two to three coats. Then depending on the request a minimal satin coat to take out the worst sparkle effects. This way you do not make the image flat. The custom  ICC printer profile is made of a target created the same way. Lascaux acrylic varnishes 1:1 sprayed with a HVLP gun. For paper I start with either matte or gloss papers and a minimal protective spray, the last not always.

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Robert Ardill

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Re: Varnishing MATTE papers - what are my options ?
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2014, 08:42:10 am »

Look into the possibility of laminating the print with a matte laminate.

I've tried a semi-matte laminate and as long as there is no reflection the laminate is not too bad. However even then there is a slight dulling of the blacks and a color shift, as you can see from this scan (laminate only on bottom-half of image):



(Right-click to see full size version)

But as soon as there's any reflection, of course the whole effect of the matte paper is ruined.  The laminate protects the paper ... but the beauty of the paper is lost.  I haven't tried a matte laminate (I don't have any) but I would be surprised if it also didn't affect the colors and tones.  BUT ... it certainly would be interesting if anyone has tried a matte laminate ... and it may be that very high quality, very thin laminates are available.

This subject is certainly one that I'm very interested in as I would love to be able to mount my prints without glass, or directly onto Dibond or acrylic.

Cheers,

Robert
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Pic One

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Re: Varnishing MATTE papers - what are my options ?
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2014, 08:44:55 am »

I guess I'd need to see examples, but I'm stumped in trying to understand the choice of using matte paper in the first place, if in the end one is going to spray it with gloss coatings?
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Robert Ardill

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Re: Varnishing MATTE papers - what are my options ?
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2014, 10:19:36 am »

I guess I'd need to see examples, but I'm stumped in trying to understand the choice of using matte paper in the first place, if in the end one is going to spray it with gloss coatings?

I agree :).  There's absolutely no point as there are wonderful gloss papers like the Canson Platine that already have a texture (if texture is what you're looking for).  The only reason that I can see for spray or laminate is to increase the depth of color/DMax ... and to protect the paper so that it can be displayed without glass.

Robert
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Garry Sarre

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Re: Varnishing MATTE papers - what are my options ?
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2014, 10:48:45 am »

On a tangent here. As a lover of cotton papers and liking the look, I tried canvas.... And hated the look. The canvases I used, good brands, all looked like vinyl. Even worse when coated.

I stumbled across a brand of Indian cotton that is processed in Canada called dura. The coating is infused into the fabric, not just on the surface where it is suseptable to scratching. A bonus is that there is very little metamerism. I do give it a light spray of matte UV protectant as well.

Without a shadow of a doubt, I have the best looking matte canvas of any photographer I know

Which brings me to the question. Does anyone know if any manufacturers are using this process with papers. That would mostly solve these problems with suseptable cotton papers.
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